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05-12-2015, 01:47 PM   #61
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I simply can't see the appeal of a camera that OP wants unless you're a neo-Luddite of some sort. It would be a super niche product, very very limited in appeal, and far more expensive than one with all the bells and whistles. There's a reason no one has really developed digital backs for older film cameras.

05-12-2015, 01:47 PM   #62
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@Silver-Surfer:
Please note that I didn't disagree with what you wrote (about the easy of use and so on), I'm simply saying this thread is not about the A7 - but about something very different. The Sony is not the answer for many of the questions asked on this forum.
And that is my opinion - though I quoted the OP in support.

Last edited by Kunzite; 05-12-2015 at 02:22 PM.
05-12-2015, 02:30 PM   #63
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Too niche. The problem is that while many may want to have such a camera _occasionally_, they want a body that can do AF and metering too. Having such a camera as a film camera is fine (and perhaps even better, because you also get to shoot film), because it doesn't cost much. Metering and AF won't add that much to a camera, and with it being so niche the sales would be so low that it might even cost more than a fully featured model. So who will go and think... I can either have the FF model with all bells and whistles, which I use once in a while, or I can get a much more stripped down camera. Unless you are really rich and can afford both, I think most will go for the more flexible camera.


Turning off AF and metering isn't the same though... at least AF. One of the reasons (main reason perhaps) why even FF bodies have a small and dim viewfinder compared to, say, a K1000, MX or LX is that the AF sensor doesn't need light. If you remove AF, you can install a 100% reflective mirror, and thus are able to offer a big, bright viewfinder. So yeah, there are advantages to a MF only body (I don't see any for the removal of an exposure meter though).


However didn't Pentax or Ricoh patent a mirror that can be adjusted in how much light it lets through? With that tech it would be possible to have a 100% reflective mirror that results in a bright and big viewfinder, and when you press the AF button it will darken, light hits the AF sensor and the camera focuses. It might even be better in low light situations. I think this would be the ideal solution... much more flexible, without trade-offs.
05-12-2015, 04:03 PM   #64
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I have been making and posting photos taken with Pentax lenses on more forums and even Sony sections (how often does one get to do that )
The message has always been that the Pentax lenses are as good if not better than anything out there and certainly unique with its balance of performance/rendering/size.
People see these picts and get interested in the lenses (and hopefully the cameras eventually).
I have seen OSV posts on FM forums that show off how good the K28/3.5 is vs all comers. (and people get interested and pick up that by association, the Pentax stuff is good )

Better than all the 'good' done with the big theories, conspiracy theories and 'build my own camera' being thrown about in a Pentax only forum.

05-12-2015, 07:48 PM   #65
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Got to admit, I have pondered the Sony A7 at times. I was concerned that manual focusing would be awkward with it -- not awful, but not the pleasing experience it is with an older film SLR, which is what I really crave in a digital camera. On the other hand, I see that a number of people are happy with how it works. It's a bit of an expensive experiment for somebody who otherwise is not invested -- and doesn't want to be -- in the Sony system. Thus, I remain on the fence about the whole matter.
05-12-2015, 10:19 PM   #66
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Dear pinholecam, you opened a can of worms when you brought up the A7. Now clean up the mess
05-13-2015, 01:01 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
fortunately companies like zeiss and samyang are turning out manual-only lenses, which proves that there is a market for it.
Zeiss gets it. Not only in the manual-lenses area but also in general: 35mm FE Distagon “is exceptional” (Admiringlight). 28mm FE “good performer considering the small size” (Philip Reeve) | sonyalpharumors

QuoteQuote:
It’s easy to see that the FE 35mm f/1.4 is exceptional. It takes an extremely good Fuji 23mm f/1.4 and makes it look mediocre in comparison. Zeiss has done something rather incredible with the lens.
As to "forcing a camera on a thread": that is the natural result when it's the one and only camera that comes closest to being a modern day Spotmatic / K1000. Form factor, size, giant VF, manual focussing accuracy. The camera the OP whishes is not going to happen, we all agree on that. But the alternative comes so close. Putting a modern day HDSLR on manual doesn't even come vaguely close it. Those should be kept on spray&pray mode. My A7r on manual is like using my K1000, but more modern and with a brighter, bigger, more accurate VF.

Last edited by Clavius; 05-13-2015 at 01:27 AM.
05-13-2015, 08:36 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Being completely oblivious to engineering, I sometimes wonder if a digital back/insert for the K1000 would be possible nowadays. And if it would be affordable at all. For me it would be the coolest aftermarket accessory ever.
Just for fun I try to find some possible issues.

While technically possible, a digital back on an "all mechanical" SLR like K1000 would be a real kludge. So it might seems cool, but probably only until you start using it.
1. Difficult to communicate shutter speed and ISO between camera and digital back, so the shutter speed and ISO will probably have to be set on both camera and digital back. The simplification of using an old SLR setting will not longer apply.
2. Difficult to sync the mechanical shutter to the back when picture is taken. I might be that not all camera work well with the back because the shutter is out of specification, and the exposure will be off (leading to over/under exposure or other problems)
3. The sensor probably have to be adjusted in x & y (and maybe also z axis), so the sensor is centered on the mirror box (and the focus plane is correctly adjusted). The mechanics of the frame of the camera is most likely not good enough to just be able put on the digital back without any calibration.
4. The digital back might get too thick so it will be uncomfortable to use the OVF, and some sort of OVF extender has to be used.
5. Difficult to get support. What support can one expect if the digital back do not work on a camera that might be up to 40 years old?
6. Designing a digital back for an old mechanical SLR will probably cost more than designing a complete K1000D DSLR, and production cost will probably also be higher than a complete DSLR as the expected sales volume will be lower. So in the end it would be much more expensive solution than a complete DSLR.

05-13-2015, 09:01 AM   #69
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Kodak was putting digital backs on Nikon film SLRs almost 25 years ago, but I doubt any company will ever do it again. So instead I indulge in hopeless daydreams about Pentax making a fully manual DSLR and wish I could afford a Leica.

Here's some info the Kodak/Nikon camera: Kodak DCS-Digital Still SLR camera - Index Page
05-13-2015, 09:08 AM   #70
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Heres my take on what could work but wont happen as a digital insert for film cameras:

Sensor module attached where film pressure plate once was(with model specific adapter aluminum for cooling)
electronics and batteries where film canister used to be with ribbon connecting to sensor.
Motion detect sensor for film advance reel.
Infrared motion detect for shutter curtain movement
Wifi or bluetooth connection to smartphone for iso wb adjustments and to Chimp your images
05-13-2015, 10:33 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by tvdtvdtvd Quote
Do a search for 'digital film' or 'digital cartridge'. Makes for interesting reading and will leave you thinking,
"Yeah! that looks great, so why isn't it happening.".
Mostly because of coupling between the sensor and release/shutter/wind mechanism. I have seen a couple of DIY projects, but they used an electronic shutter with the camera shutter on "B".


Steve
05-13-2015, 10:37 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by weijen Quote
It would be totally different experience to use a manual lens on a proper manual focus body. First, the viewfinder is bigger and brighter because the half mirror AF sensor saps light and there's a proper focusing aid on the focus screen.
That is the crux of the matter. The AF system essentially cripples the manual focus system.


Steve
05-13-2015, 10:43 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Got to admit, I have pondered the Sony A7 at times. I was concerned that manual focusing would be awkward with it -- not awful, but not the pleasing experience it is with an older film SLR, which is what I really crave in a digital camera. On the other hand, I see that a number of people are happy with how it works. It's a bit of an expensive experiment for somebody who otherwise is not invested -- and doesn't want to be -- in the Sony system. Thus, I remain on the fence about the whole matter.
I thought the same regarding the A7 until I actually tried one. The electronic viewfinder was OK, but gave me a headache and vertigo. The clincher was the very loud shutter. I decided to pass. Still, though, I know a number of photogs that are very fond of theirs.


Steve
05-13-2015, 12:33 PM   #74
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Well, instead of fantasizing over some kind of throwback retro-cam that we know isn't going to happen, I would be just as happy if we get a good, solid, full-frame DSLR from Pentax that I can put an old-fashioned split-prism focusing screen into. Unfortunately, that screen won't be made by KatzEye. Surely somebody else will make one, though. It would be great if Pentax would make one. That doesn't seem like a crazy thing to wish for.
05-13-2015, 01:50 PM   #75
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Hey anybody want a K1000 focus screen shaved to fit their camera $89.99 lol seriously Ill do it.
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