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05-21-2015, 04:04 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I was responding to Falk's post, ... Saying they didn't even decide while officially promising a release this year, i.e. accusing them of lying and contradicting every bit of information we have, is.
Just for the record. That's not what I said. I said the management decision to do the FF product may predate the FF anouncement by a short amount of time only.

We all assume, me being no exception, that Pentax experimented with bits and pieces related to FF before that. But to start an FF product development with an according allocation of resources may be more recent than you think. And that's all I said.

05-21-2015, 04:18 PM   #92
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This is pointless.
05-21-2015, 05:59 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think XT-1 is that great with regard to auto focus, at least not with regard to either tracking or, low light situations. Not sure what DP Review was testing, but probably comes down to the lenses they chose on each camera.
Could be. I've used the Fuji X-T1 and I really didn't think it was any better, but I don't shoot anything that moves really fast. DPR was testing a guy on a bike riding towards the photographer in the test. They tested the K-3 and the X-T1 with a guy on a bike.
05-21-2015, 06:07 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Could be. I've used the Fuji X-T1 and I really didn't think it was any better, but I don't shoot anything that moves really fast. DPR was testing a guy on a bike riding towards the photographer in the test. They tested the K-3 and the X-T1 with a guy on a bike.
And in your considered opinion, on the basis of one test, with one guy who really doesn't know the camera, testing one guy, on one bike at one speed, in one set of lighting condition, gives you definite proof, that the Fuji XT1 is better?

Is that the level of rigour you accept?

OK, first question... were they testing the AF speed of the camera, or the speed of the two lenses?

Just to add a bit of humour....
Say I take one of my really fast focusing lenses... Like my F 70-210 or my Tamron 90 (both screw drive) and pit it against my DA*60-250. The Da* is moderately fast but not really comparable to the other two.

So then I post that my K-3 has a better AF system than my K-3. Everyone thinks I'm an idiot.
So why when this guy from DPR posts nonsense like this and draws conclusions about the AF system people think he's worth quoting, and that what he says is fact? With all due respect.. he's just as much an idiot as i would be if I posted such nonsense. Only he was stupid enough to post it with a straight face.... and to tell the truth, the people who buy into such nonsense aren't any better than he is. If they had any brains at all they'd see the flaw immediately, and not bother posting such results on the forum.

If you really want to compare AF speed, for absolute pronouncements test the fastest AFing lenses on both system against each other. You definitely don't pick a couple of kit lenses.


Last edited by normhead; 05-21-2015 at 06:22 PM.
05-21-2015, 06:40 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Well, it depends. The Samsung NX-1 has a pretty amazing AF system, but I can't see Samsung eating Canon or Nikon's DSLR lunch anytime soon.

About Pentax FF, I think improved AF hardware and software is just a logical evolution of what is already there in the K-3, just as the K-3 AF was a logical, progressive evolution of K-5 AF. The question is when will a new generation of SAFOX arrive in a Pentax body, not if.

The upcoming FF would be the natural place to put a new AF system, since it is meant to be a showcase, a flagship, and a strong competitor against some already pretty impressive FF's from other parties.
On paper the NX-1 does have great AF. Samsung will gain market share in Asia first and with their ability to integrate with other technologies they have potential. They have had a lot of issues, but they are releasing their 3rd major firmware update (or just did) and seem to be making a lot of progress. I'm not sure how aggressive Samsung has been outside of Asia. It has been hard to even find previous Samsung cameras to try here in the USA. The AF of the NX-1 still has not lived up to the hype, but it has potential.

I think we see an new AF and it might not even have the SAFOX name on it. I actually think its time they SAFOX AF system out of its misery. I hope that they have a much improved system worthy of a new name. The new AF motors in the D-FA* lenses should be very, very fast with the right AF system. Ricoh has a golden opportunity to make a splash with the new FF.

Really there is not other area that they can make a huge improvement. With everyone using Sony sensors and sharing Fujitsu image processors with Nikon its going to be hard to differentiate the new FF with image quality or frame rate. Unless they have a new image from someone other than Fujitsu. Ricoh's build quality, ergonomics, menus, and features are already better than the competition. Yes, they can add support technology like WiFi, GPS, or whatever, but the one area where they can make a real splash is AF performance. When I talk to other professionals about what they use any why, reliable AF is up at the top of the list. Why do they knock mirrorless? AF. Why do they knock Pentax? AF. You can fix a would of problems in post, but focus is not one of them currently (unless you are using a light field camera).

The same applies to Sony or Fuji. There is a big race right now for AF technology. Fuji has a new firmware patch coming in June that promises much fast AF and better tracking. Sony has several different AF systems they are working on. The A6000 is pretty amazing for what it is. The AF-D system that is in the A99 is a different system that has a lot of potential with enough processing power and the right glass. My biggest complaint about the A7II is AF. I can live with the 300 frame battery life. There is a lot of room for mirrorless AF systems to get better. I don't know how much better PDAF systems can get.

I don't think Samsung is currently in the same position as Sony, Fuji, or Ricoh when it comes to capitalizing on market share. As long as Olympus is limited to 4/3 sensor they have limited potential. The day Olympus produces a FF mirorless they will be an instant player. Nikon has problems and I think they could lose 10% of their market share if they don't figure things out soon.
05-21-2015, 06:52 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If you really want to compare AF speed, for absolute pronouncements test the fastest AFing lenses on both system against each other. You definitely don't pick a couple of kit lenses.
I read 'AFing' faster the first time.
05-22-2015, 06:31 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I read 'AFing' faster the first time.
Ya, it's a good term... I plan to use it more in the future.

As in "Get your hand off my AFing camera."

Or..

"Do you have an AFing camera? "
"NO I only have an old ME super, it's not an AFing camera."
"Well then you should get yourself an AFing camera."
"How about a K-3II it's supposed to be a great AFing Camera?"
"No, I've heard Full Frames are better AFing cameras.."

anyway, enough...

Last edited by normhead; 05-22-2015 at 06:38 AM.
05-25-2015, 03:45 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
October. I can't find my source which is current, but here is a similiar source for a recent 8 year period: Crunching the Numbers: Four Insights We Can Glean from Camera Sales Data

And I don't believe for a second that their FF development started prior to their 3D print. That was a marketing stunt because R&D are empty-handed.

I think I learned my share to read the signs when they are on the wall ...
I do think they start working on it at presenting the mockup. But some things aren't that difficult, since most things will be used as in k-3/645Z. Unless they want something New. Then we don't see it this year.

I was in England last weeks and it's not easy to buy Pentax. Only saw a handfull of toerists with Pentax. There isn't much market left over. I don't think That the k20d with kitlens user at Land's End wil buy the 2000+ euro FF!

05-25-2015, 04:03 PM   #99
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Ron, they started working on it about 3 years ago - that's what they said, and I believe them (it also fits with the promise to deliver it by the end of 2015).

Last edited by Kunzite; 05-25-2015 at 11:37 PM. Reason: wrong addresee
05-25-2015, 04:32 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
they started working on it about 3 years ago
2012 was when the Nikon D4 was released, plus the D800 and D800E plus the D600, and the Canon 5D3, Canon 6D, and Canon 1Dc, three Leica M's, the Sony RX-1 and the Sony Alpha 99. A FF flood.

Little wonder Pentax felt prompted to move on FF development.
05-25-2015, 04:44 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
...There isn't much market left over. I don't think That the k20d with kitlens user at Land's End wil buy the 2000+ euro FF!
They only need enough sales to justify the production (ie make the required profit). Somehow, they keep turning out new APS-C bodies and people keep buying them, even though they have a small market share. Let's not start catastrophising about the market size again, please!
05-25-2015, 11:51 PM   #102
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How about the K-5IIs user with Limiteds and DA*s?

It's amazing how we're discussing/dismissing a decision made years ago, when they already started announcing the products. The FF avalanche has already started, it is too late for pebbles to vote
05-26-2015, 06:15 AM   #103
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Anything definitive out on the sensor yet? If they go mid 30's mp they are "checking a box". If they go 50mp, there is a real war coming...
05-26-2015, 07:02 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
If they go mid 30's mp they are "checking a box"
But it is likely to be 36MP with pixel shift high resolution. Who needs a 50MP sensor
05-26-2015, 07:36 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
But it is likely to be 36MP with pixel shift high resolution. Who needs a 50MP sensor
36MP is high resolution and pixel shift is far to limiting for day to day use. Why not add pixel shift to a body with a 59MP sensor?

The D750 and 5DIII cameras hit a sweet spot for a lot of professional photographers. Shooting events like weddings generates a lot of files that have to be processed. 24MP files are not too demanding on decent computer.
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