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06-11-2015, 05:46 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
As I've said before, if Pentax simply made a re-badged D810 in K-mount as a 'Pentax K-1', not too many people would complain about it.
What would be the point? Why not getting the original?
I would surely complain; the reason I'm with Pentax and not Nikon is because I want Pentax, not Nikon. But it won't happen.

06-11-2015, 06:02 AM   #17
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Why would Pentax want to release just one version of their full frame camera. Three is a good number:

High end for specialist market: 42MP Full-Frame Exmor R BSI CMOS Sensor with pixel shift tech
One for the FF 'mass market: 36MP with GPS & competitively priced
One for the uber low light low noise: 12 or 16MP addressing high end video and well as stills.

In terms of manufacture process and components there would be little difference, just swap over some key elements like the sensor.

Of course, it would need Sony and maybe another sensor manufacturer to co-operate..................
06-11-2015, 06:09 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by ronniemac Quote
Why would Pentax want to release just one version of their full frame camera. Three is a good number:

High end for specialist market: 42MP Full-Frame Exmor R BSI CMOS Sensor with pixel shift tech
One for the FF 'mass market: 36MP with GPS & competitively priced
One for the uber low light low noise: 12 or 16MP addressing high end video and well as stills.

In terms of manufacture process and components there would be little difference, just swap over some key elements like the sensor.

Of course, it would need Sony and maybe another sensor manufacturer to co-operate..................
The reason is that they are bound to sell small numbers of full frame cameras. Releasing two or three full frames will just split that number among the different bodies and not increase the number purchasing a whole lot.
06-11-2015, 06:20 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The reason is that they are bound to sell small numbers of full frame cameras. Releasing two or three full frames will just split that number among the different bodies and not increase the number purchasing a whole lot.
The Fuji X-T1 is a pretty specialized camera and it has sold very well.

The Sony A7s is highly specialized and expensive and it has sold really well.
The Sony A7r is a specialized camera and it sold really well.
The Sony A7 was the "general purpose" camera and the cheapest, but it didn't sell as well as the A7s or the A7r. The A7II has sold much better with the improvements.

I'm not sure that the Swiss Army knife approach is still a good model to use in the camera industry. Professionals tend to specialize and the high end market favors specialization.

06-11-2015, 06:29 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The Fuji X-T1 is a pretty specialized camera and it has sold very well.

The Sony A7s is highly specialized and expensive and it has sold really well.
The Sony A7r is a specialized camera and it sold really well.
The Sony A7 was the "general purpose" camera and the cheapest, but it didn't sell as well as the A7s or the A7r. The A7II has sold much better with the improvements.

I'm not sure that the Swiss Army knife approach is still a good model to use in the camera industry. Professionals tend to specialize and the high end market favors specialization.
You have to start somewhere. I would say that if their initial offering is successful then they will release further full frame camera models, but I just think they will choose something that they think will get their best foot forward for an initial camera body and then figure out where to go from there.
06-11-2015, 08:19 AM   #21
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It's a bit pointless to launch more than one camera, when you barely started rebuilding your lens line.
06-11-2015, 09:25 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It's a bit pointless to launch more than one camera, when you barely started rebuilding your lens line.
Multiple bodies without many lenses is more of a Sony thing to do
06-11-2015, 10:25 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It's a bit pointless to launch more than one camera, when you barely started rebuilding your lens line.
Ya, like when is Sony going to start rebuilding their lens line? Oh wait, they haven't even built a lens line to compare with Pentax's existing lenses yet, so they can't rebuild anything.

06-11-2015, 02:38 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZackHuggins Quote
Multiple bodies without many lenses is more of a Sony thing to do
It has worked with the A7 series, because just about any lens ever made will mount on it. It is a different story with the old lens mount concept. I really enjoy my A7x camera, because they accept all of my legacy glass including Pentax in FF or aps-c format.
06-11-2015, 02:57 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The reason is that they are bound to sell small numbers of full frame cameras. Releasing two or three full frames will just split that number among the different bodies and not increase the number purchasing a whole lot.
No need for different bodies, just change the sensor, firmware and perhaps processing engine. Flash or GPS makes little difference to the body so if flash is really needed, it's no big deal.

---------- Post added 06-11-15 at 03:09 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It's a bit pointless to launch more than one camera, when you barely started rebuilding your lens line.
Why are these options mutually exclusive?

In any case, Pentax already manufacture 12 FF lenses, At the point of launch Pentax will have at least 14, and of course there are some nice legacy full frame lenses.
06-11-2015, 03:20 PM   #26
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My point is, it probably isn't very effective to try selling several cameras when you don't have suitable lenses - and at the appropriate price points.
Make one camera at the right price point and you can get away with the existing lenses plus some expensive D FAs. Add a cheap option, and people will want cheap lenses (but still up there with the competition's). Where's the plastic 85mm f/1.8? - stuff like that.

They would only do it if:
- it doesn't strain their R&D resources too much (one barely on time camera is better than two late ones)
- it would lead to higher sales so there would be a positive net effect (with their current market share, it's doubtful)

One single camera, like we know they'll be doing, is the least risky option - while still being able to serve as foundation for further growth. In time, once they will have the lenses, users and better brand recognition they can add another tier.
06-11-2015, 05:34 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
Isn't the licensing with Sony such that Ricoh has to wait x number of months (on the order of 6-18) after Sony releases their products based on a new sensor? August would be too late to meet the "by the end of the year" target.

Seems this thread belongs in the Rumors section BTW.
As stated elsewhere, Sony will sell Ricoh whatever Ricoh is willing to pay for - including 'first-mover' rights.
06-11-2015, 05:46 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The Fuji X-T1 is a pretty specialized camera and it has sold very well.

The Sony A7s is highly specialized and expensive and it has sold really well.
The Sony A7r is a specialized camera and it sold really well.
The Sony A7 was the "general purpose" camera and the cheapest, but it didn't sell as well as the A7s or the A7r. The A7II has sold much better with the improvements.
Where are you getting your sales figures from, Winder?
06-11-2015, 06:46 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by fredralphfred Quote
Stillshot2 is a free man.
I agree with this statement

I suppose I posted here because I have become so used to the "full frame" section to be synonymous with "rumor" that anything to do with a Pentax full frame belonged there lol. The reason I am pretty sure it could be this sensor is because in another thread (I can't remember where, maybe someone else does) kenspo, a rather reliable source of info, when asked if the new FF would be 36 megapixels, said no (with a smiley after it). I also believe he said it won't be 24, which left a bunch of people guessing. That doesn't leave too many options, except for this new 42mp.
06-11-2015, 06:50 PM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Where are you getting your sales figures from, Winder?
From Sony interviews. The have said that:
1. They were surprised at the sales volume. Exceeded expectations especially among professional photographers.
2. They pulled resources away from A mount to accelerate production of the FE line.
3. Not a single A mount body or lens was on display at CP+ or Photokina. FE has been their golden goose. A-mount sales are down and the camera division has higher profits, because of the strength of the A7 line.

The Sony market share report shows significant growth in mirrorless, and they only produced on APS-C mirrorless camera last year (A6000). 3 FE mirrorless. Their A-mount sales have fallen to the point that Ricoh moved past A-mount for DSLR sales.

I obviously don't have access to Sony's sales. Zeiss has released 4 FE mount lenses in the last 12 months with 2 more expected this year. The Loxia are still in short supply as Zeiss is having trouble keeping up with demand. Voightlander redesigned the 15mm for the FE mount. When was the last time any company designed 4 lenses specifically for K-mount?

3rd Party Support:
Zeiss is not going to develop any more Touit Lenses. Why? APS-C is not selling.
Zeiss has announced 1 more Loxia (FE) and 1 more Batis (FE) this year. Why? FF is selling well and demand is high.
Given Zeiss's relationship with Sony, I would think Zeiss has a good idea how things are selling. They are putting a lot of resources into the FE mount.

3rd party support is a great way to gauge sales.
VSCO has build custom profiles for Sony. Why? It sells.
VSCO says they have no plans to develop custom color profiles for Pentax. Why? No demand.

When Adobe was asked if they would build support for the multi-area white balance into LR to support the K-3 MAWB in RAW. They said "no" not enough Pentax users, but they spent months working on X-Trans RAW processing for the Fuji X-mount. Why? high demand.

This is why I think it is a big deal that Priolite has announced support for Pentax with the new lights. It is a sign that they see strong demand for the 645z and they are willing to invest in the development of support systems. No. I don't have any numbers, but all the interviews from Sony and Zeiss indicate strong sales that have exceeded their expectations. Just as I don't know how many 645z bodies Ricoh has sold, but still know that it has sold extremely well.
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