I think it's quite simple: 50mm f2 at 3 meters (or whatever f-stop and distance) will give the same dof on ff-, aps-c-, mft- or whatever-sensors. but because you want to get a specific angle (not focal length), you will take a few steps back when using a smaller sensor - and that changes your dof (further away=more dof). or you change to a shorter focal length lens and stay in the same place (as shorter lenses always have wider DoF), which also changes your DoF.., or any combination of those two things.
I was thinking about these topics the other night.. and I was thinking, we used to have people tooting equivalence, but misusing it to imply it proved FF had a one stop light and noise advantage , which is what most popular sights do. Then you have others who will say equivalence is just wrong. It's not wrong, it's just pretty much irrelevant.
There is a grain of truth in both arguments.
FF does mean you can shoot for really narrow DoF at say ƒ1.4 in low light and there might be a difference between the APS_c and the FF shot in such circumstances. There is a teeny tiny little advantage to FF systems, if and only if certain shooting parameters are met. Between ƒ1.8 and ƒ16, where most of us do most of our shooting, APS-c has more DOF than FF at the same ƒ-stop and there is no disadvantage to APS-c, and uses the same amount of light and creates the same amount of noise for the same Depth of field.
When people are saying they don't believe in equivalence, sometimes they're really "saying I don't believe that applying 'equivalence' as theory in any way improves my photography." And that as well is a totally valid point.
But as noted earlier today, there is now starting to be information disseminators on youtube etc who are attacking equivalence as a theory... but the main thing I've noticed is, you can walk people through equivalence and everyone comes to their understanding, which may not be in agreement in each other but since equivalence is pretty much a self obvious phenomenon, no one has to get it completely right. It's pretty much superfluous as a theory. It explains things, but doesn't help your real world photography. (People will say different, but there is absolutely no need to understand equivalence, if you are a careful student of the effects of each lens you use on each format you use it on, you will understand equivalence completely without the math.
There are a lot of people who say things like "I use equivalence all the time." What they don't realize is a lot of us used equivalence all the time before "equivalence" was a thing. You don't have to know the theory of equaivalnce to use the phenomena equivalence describes. What we used to know was, "for a bigger format you need a longer lens to do the same thing." That's all you need... no math, you compensating for noise and aperture and DoF. I can tell you, these clowns championing equivalence all over the place don't know anymore than we did. They've just for some reason wed their psyches to this theory.
You can interpret equivalence to promote any format you choose as better than every other format out there. For any little corner of the equivalence table, you can find an advantage for almost any format, especially when you get into the magnification factor in a system like the Q, where you get very wide DoF for your FoV. Every system has it's sweet spot. When you look at evrything, you can use equivalence to make any system look good or bad. The question in my mind in these kinds of things is not about equivalence. It's more like "Why is the poster doing this, what's his angle?"
Every actual expert I've read that discussed equivalence has said " the point of equivalence is not to prove one system is better than another." People who do that should be taken with a grain of salt. It's completely limited to what lenses to use on what format for the same field of view. Anyone who says equivalence proves the superiority of one system over another, doesn't understand equivalence. It's pretty much format neutral. It's human interpretations that try and ascribe format values to a pretty much format neutral concept.
But we get new salvo's from new people who are excited about some internet blog, and the information can be biased in three different ways. SO if we really want to put equivalence to bed, we're probably going to have to have the forum delete the word from all posts. There seems to be a new wave of interested parties from time to time. And the same things are gone over, over and over again. Note as to the state of equivalence discussions.
I'm going out on a limb here, and I'm going to suggest that physicists schooled in refraction but not optics are probably the most obtuse posters on the forum. They seem to often barely understand photographicly important subjects like DoF, and Aperture and phrase their posts in such a way, that if you didn't know what they were talking about, before you read their posts, you wouldn't be any smarter after you read their posts. And if you did thoroughly understand before, it would still take an in-ordnate amount of time to check their work because of their manner of expression is somewhat unconventional.
It sort of re-inforces the old thing about the scientist who works in his lab, and does great things, but can't explain anything to laymen.
I'm sure they are smarter than me. I'm just also sure you have to be someone who is smarter than them to completely understand them, and even smarter than that to be able to understand what they are talking about, and put it out there in laymans terms so everyone can understand it.
Last edited by normhead; 07-15-2015 at 10:00 AM.
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