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08-31-2015, 02:05 PM   #1
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Story of Broken Promises but yet i have hope

As a long term Pentax user who sold all of the APS-C lens and camera models but retained the venerable 31mm and 77mm and acquired vintage FA* lens (28-70, and 70-200) and a gorgeous A* 15mm, I must admit i lost patience and bought a Sony A7r and bunch of Zeiss/Sony lens. With the subsequent release of the A7rII I am tempted but i have decided to hang fire and see what the Pentax FF has to offer in the hope that i can go back to Pentax as my primary kit. I will be over the moon if it has the new Sony 42MP sensor but would yet happy with the (relatively old) 36MP based on the one in the A7r (it really provides astonishing results). I will retain (and enjoy) my current mirrorless but there is something special about the operation of a DSLR; it's burst performance, fast focus(although Pentax could always do better at this!), and just the speed of the operation of machine itself. There is just something familiar/special about the handing of a DSLR. And yes it is big.......but there is something comforting in its bulk! So i am going to avoid reviews of the A7rII and wait with baited breath for October(sic) and the announcement of the Pentax FF specs

08-31-2015, 02:10 PM - 1 Like   #2
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Sounds like a plan.

And I think the 'broken promises' were mostly hype from the internet, not actual product announcements from anyone truly authorized to say anything. Regardless, it has been a long time coming and I hope in October there are a lot of happy people, both Pentax users and people at Ricoh headquarters as well.
08-31-2015, 02:48 PM - 1 Like   #3
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I'm fully expecting that the new Pentax full frame to be a game changer. Canikon shooters will be dumping their equipment and coming over to Pentax to get the unbelievable goodness of a 42MP sensor with "pixel shift" and "camera based anti-shake"! Seriously!!

I came over to Pentax from Nikon and Fuji X once the K3II was announced. I was so impressed with the K3II's features and ergonomics, and anticipating that the full frame would incorporate them (and more) that I've been building up a collection of high quality primes that I believe will shine of the full frame.

I've "invested the farm" into getting ready for the new Pentax full frame, and am convinced that it will be well worth the wait and the investment.

Folks, get your premium quality, full frame glass now, for after the full frame comes out, and the terrific reviews start coming in, the price of primo full-frame glass will increase as folks from other systems come over to our side!

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 08-31-2015 at 03:00 PM.
08-31-2015, 03:11 PM   #4
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Lets hope that all of our expectations are met by the Pentax FF.

There is so much new camera tech arriving in the market nowadays from every direction we kind of want the new Pentax full-frame to incorporate it all, plus offer something new and unique. Probably not realistic.

It won't be able to do everything, and beat all that Sony/Nikon/Canon/Olympus/Leica/Fuji/Apple/Samsung etc have to offer. Disappointment for many people seems inevitable.

08-31-2015, 03:53 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Sounds like a plan.

And I think the 'broken promises' were mostly hype from the internet, not actual product announcements from anyone truly authorized to say anything. Regardless, it has been a long time coming and I hope in October there are a lot of happy people, both Pentax users and people at Ricoh headquarters as well.
Indeed; from the cancelled "MZ-D" project until Ricoh Imaging's FF product line (whose market launch started this spring, lenses first) there was not a single instance of a Pentax official promising a digital FF.

Regardless, it was a long wait (and it's not over yet... more than a month to the announcement, then a bit more to market availability...). I'm reasonably confident that Pentax as a Ricoh brand will reward our patience, in a way Pentax as a Hoya division was unable to.
08-31-2015, 05:42 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Lets hope that all of our expectations are met by the Pentax FF.

There is so much new camera tech arriving in the market nowadays from every direction we kind of want the new Pentax full-frame to incorporate it all, plus offer something new and unique. Probably not realistic.

It won't be able to do everything, and beat all that Sony/Nikon/Canon/Olympus/Leica/Fuji/Apple/Samsung etc have to offer. Disappointment for many people seems inevitable.
Not to rain on the parade that I was also waiting for, but I think the lack of modern lenses will be a key factor in getting others to move to the brand. Most of the best lenses are two generations old, and while good, they can't compete with the newer generations from Zeiss and others; there is simply not the range to chose from. So Pentax will have to either convince others (Sigma is the only other real platform support right now) to create lenses that support the new FF. I am sure the sensor will be great, and the camera function will be also, but that alone will not cause others to move over to Pentax FF.
08-31-2015, 05:49 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
Not to rain on the parade that I was also waiting for, but I think the lack of modern lenses will be a key factor in getting others to move to the brand. Most of the best lenses are two generations old, and while good, they can't compete with the newer generations from Zeiss and others; there is simply not the range to chose from. So Pentax will have to either convince others (Sigma is the only other real platform support right now) to create lenses that support the new FF. I am sure the sensor will be great, and the camera function will be also, but that alone will not cause others to move over to Pentax FF.
My informed bet is - over the next 18 months - the primary focal lengths in both prime and zoom lenses will be released (or re-released) with all the most modern features, Tamron will re-enter the game, SIgma will grudgingly offer some lenses on K-mount and something unexpected will happen.

There will follow a year of consolidation of gains, some APSc noise, perhaps some action on Q, some 645 lenses - and then (if all goes well with the new FF) some line expansion.

We need to look forward. Ricoh Pentax is not a static company.
08-31-2015, 06:00 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
Not to rain on the parade that I was also waiting for, but I think the lack of modern lenses will be a key factor in getting others to move to the brand. Most of the best lenses are two generations old, and while good, they can't compete with the newer generations from Zeiss and others;
Personally I don't give a rodents rear end about bringing 'others' to the brand, I just want a winner of a camera. But your point is well taken, and very true. But, (IMHO) unless Ricoh thought they could make and sell a lot of new glass I seriously doubt they would have gone forward with this project. Making a FF camera so old crotchety Pentax Users from the 70's can use their old glass "as it was meant to be used" does not sound like a profitable business plan.

I fully expect to see by this time next year:
15-30 f/?
24-70 f/2.8
70-200 f/2.8
24-105 f/4 (or variable aperture)
DFA HD 31mm, 43mm, 77mm
28mm or maybe 24mm
50mm updated

And I think 1 or 2 others.

08-31-2015, 07:46 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
Not to rain on the parade that I was also waiting for, but I think the lack of modern lenses will be a key factor in getting others to move to the brand. Most of the best lenses are two generations old, and while good, they can't compete with the newer generations from Zeiss and others; there is simply not the range to chose from. So Pentax will have to either convince others (Sigma is the only other real platform support right now) to create lenses that support the new FF. I am sure the sensor will be great, and the camera function will be also, but that alone will not cause others to move over to Pentax FF.
How old are Canon and Nikon's lenses?

I don't think anyone is keeping track of age. Performance is all that matters. Canon, for one, has some nice glass but honestly...it's really nothing spectacular.
09-01-2015, 06:36 AM - 1 Like   #10
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Modern Lenses?

I am puzzled by the frequent references to the lack of "modern" lenses in the Pentax line up and the need to match the modern features of Zeiss etc. I have been using the three FA ltds on the A7II and A7Rii since December and find them to produce beautiful results with the FF. Even some DAs (such as the DA70) cover the image circle well and give fine results. I also have several FE lenses which are, indeed, very nice but I really do not think they are significantly better (or better at all) than the best Pentax lenses. I do not think that existing Pentax top of the line primes will disappoint on FF.
09-01-2015, 06:51 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
And I think the 'broken promises' were mostly hype from the internet, not actual product announcements from anyone truly authorized to say anything.
Other than the 6MP FF Pentax shown at PMA. Pentax 6mp Digital SLR hands-on: Digital Photography Review

"DENVER, Colorado (February 10, 2001) . . . PENTAX Corporation will preview a new digital autofocus SLR camera (which has not yet been named) at the PMA (Photo Marketing Association) Show held in Orlando, February 11-14, 2001. The addition of this advanced digital SLR camera complements one of the most extensive photographic lines of any manufacturer in the industry including 35mm, APS, medium format and digital for various levels of photographers.


Created along the same developmental concept lines as the new PENTAX MZ-S professional 35mm autofocus SLR camera, this high-end digital SLR will feature a 35mm-film-sized, six megapixel CCD image sensor as well as a DSP and other digital processing components. This package was jointly developed with Philips Electronics in order to realize high-grade image quality, top-level performance and compact dimensions simultaneously. Offering compatibility with the existing PENTAX KAF2 lens mount, it will also accept PENTAX 645-system and 67-system interchangeable lenses (when used with an adapter). This high-performance digital autofocus SLR camera will be ideal for advanced amateurs and professionals who demand top quality images and SLR maneuverability.

The camera will be compatible with four new accessories introduced for the new MZ-S 35mm SLR camera including: 1.) BG-10 Battery Grip, 2.) CS-105 & CS-130 Cable Switches, 3.) TS-110 Release Timer Switch, and the 4.) AF360FGZ Dedicated Flash Unit. The final product specifications, pricing and marketing dates will be announced at a later time."


K-mount is and has always been a FF mount. The expectation of a FF digital has always been there.
09-01-2015, 08:37 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
I am puzzled by the frequent references to the lack of "modern" lenses in the Pentax line up and the need to match the modern features of Zeiss etc. I have been using the three FA ltds on the A7II and A7Rii since December and find them to produce beautiful results with the FF. Even some DAs (such as the DA70) cover the image circle well and give fine results. I also have several FE lenses which are, indeed, very nice but I really do not think they are significantly better (or better at all) than the best Pentax lenses. I do not think that existing Pentax top of the line primes will disappoint on FF.
I also had all three of the FA Limited lenses and loved them. However, they can't compete "technically" with much of those on the market, take a look at the DXO scores and I can't find a Pentax lens with a score higher than 20 something. Now I know it's not all about technical scores, and I loved the "soft rendering" of my FA Limiteds and the microcontrast, but there are other solutions out there for much less money.

Here is the DXO chart for Pentax and other mainstream lenses manufacturers.

Camera Lens Database - DxOMark

BTW I am very confident the FF will be a great camera, just not sure it will have the glass to support it (outside of the Sigma Art series)

Last edited by mikeodial; 09-01-2015 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Additional info
09-01-2015, 09:04 AM   #13
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You beat me to it

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Other than the 6MP FF Pentax shown at PMA. Pentax 6mp Digital SLR hands-on: Digital Photography Review

"DENVER, Colorado (February 10, 2001) . . . PENTAX Corporation will preview a new digital autofocus SLR camera (which has not yet been named) at the PMA (Photo Marketing Association) Show held in Orlando, February 11-14, 2001. The addition of this advanced digital SLR camera complements one of the most extensive photographic lines of any manufacturer in the industry including 35mm, APS, medium format and digital for various levels of photographers.


Created along the same developmental concept lines as the new PENTAX MZ-S professional 35mm autofocus SLR camera, this high-end digital SLR will feature a 35mm-film-sized, six megapixel CCD image sensor as well as a DSP and other digital processing components. This package was jointly developed with Philips Electronics in order to realize high-grade image quality, top-level performance and compact dimensions simultaneously. Offering compatibility with the existing PENTAX KAF2 lens mount, it will also accept PENTAX 645-system and 67-system interchangeable lenses (when used with an adapter). This high-performance digital autofocus SLR camera will be ideal for advanced amateurs and professionals who demand top quality images and SLR maneuverability.

The camera will be compatible with four new accessories introduced for the new MZ-S 35mm SLR camera including: 1.) BG-10 Battery Grip, 2.) CS-105 & CS-130 Cable Switches, 3.) TS-110 Release Timer Switch, and the 4.) AF360FGZ Dedicated Flash Unit. The final product specifications, pricing and marketing dates will be announced at a later time."


K-mount is and has always been a FF mount. The expectation of a FF digital has always been there.
Yeh, I was just about to highlight that broken promise
09-01-2015, 10:14 AM   #14
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They delivered all 4 of the promised accessories. As far as the camera goes the promised an un-named preview and to release the final product specifications, pricing and marketing dates to be announced at a later time. So the later time is 13-14 years later. Doesn't Pentax always say that the final name, appearance and specification of prototypes can change?
09-01-2015, 10:39 AM   #15
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DXO Evaluations Skewed Against Pentax Glass

QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
I also had all three of the FA Limited lenses and loved them. However, they can't compete "technically" with much of those on the market, take a look at the DXO scores and I can't find a Pentax lens with a score higher than 20 something. Now I know it's not all about technical scores, and I loved the "soft rendering" of my FA Limiteds and the microcontrast, but there are other solutions out there for much less money.

Here is the DXO chart for Pentax and other mainstream lenses manufacturers.

Camera Lens Database - DxOMark

BTW I am very confident the FF will be a great camera, just not sure it will have the glass to support it (outside of the Sigma Art series)

If you study the DxO lens evaluations, you will find that a lens is rated higher when tested on a full frame vs a crop frame sensor. The Pentax lenses were only tested on a crop frame sensor! When the full frame comes out I would expect that DxO would retest these Pentax lenses. I believe that their scores will increase significantly.

I fully expect some of the more modern Pentax lenses to do just great on the full frame sensor. I can not wait to try my SMC Pentax-DA* 55mm F1.4 SDM and my SMC Pentax-D FA 100mm F2.8 Macro WR on the new full frame. I expect they will perform much better then their lowly DxO scores would indicate.
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