[hsteeves]

well, I don't own a K-3 but I do own a K-5IIs and a pair of 645zs' as well as a D810. I expect the Pentax FF to be smaller with a little higher resolution- for now. It always seems that the latest guy out of the box gets the best performance out of a sensor and I think Nikon will either use that sensor in a body next year or go one better and use the Sony 50+mp sensor or maybe even both. While Ricoh/Pentax has some nice small lenses, there is no match when it comes to big glass, macro selection, tilt-shifts and the 14-24. Pentax will have to start making some new lenses and considering the company size, don't expect too many too fast. The problem with those hi-rez sensors is you need the best glass to get the best performance. Now, IMO, Nikon also focuses batter and faster, it has a better flash system and Nikon also has weather resistant glass and bodies. I have been using their cameras for 35 years now and haven't had a lot of weather-related problems - I live on the Canadian Prairies and I have seen almost everything here from +40C to -40C - in the same year, 300mm of rain in 8 hours, 150cm of snow in a day, trying to shoot a wedding with tornado bearing down, etc. etc. Even without WR, those Nikons have survived. To me, Nikon/Canon simply have better, more complete systems.

[Mattox]

Here is my take.

1. Pentax FF is just a month away, I think all you need to do is go out and shoot more picts and all of a sudden, that 1 month will have arrived. (ie. don't think too much at this point, 1 mth is easily over with some distraction)

2. There are some unknowns that we kinda know (ie. pixel shift; on camera SR; GPS and astrotracker; pentax handling; pentax interface; pentax WR; pentax smallish lenses) ... These are things that will make me choose Pentax over D810 already.

3.There is the practical and the theoretic imo (and somehow forums tend to drive folks towards the latter).
Practically means you already have the lenses. You go out the door with what you have, and you make the picts using your eqpt to the best than you can muster at that time.
The Theoretical means you just sit down facing the beautiful sunset, and lament on the 'what it could have beens'.
Your eqpt is already good, going D810 also means D810 quality lenses (added costs), going the Pentax FF route means you only spend on a new camera, esp when its not really preventing you making nice photos.

4. The cameras of the same lineage nowadays are really very close to each other in performance.
People can go I up you this you up me that, but the reality when looking at it w/o side by side comparisons is very little difference.
Which is why I think ppl like to go for DXO numbers nowadays.
Since they themselves can't prove it in picts, they point to harder to derive (so harder to reposte) numbers from DXO.
So Pentax FF, D810, A7RII, A7R, the difference will really be very little and often a win some lose some in different aspects of the camera/system

5. As for lens selection.
The often used stick to beat at Pentax.
So how many lenses does someone who says such a thing actually buy?
I often see many such folks get Sigma, Tamron on the Canikon over the OEM lenses.
Not that all the users don't buy OEM lenses, just that its often over emphasised.
You already have some lenses, some work in crop mode, and 2 work on FF, better than starting from scratch imo.

So very true

[Mattox]

It seems to me, from random encounters of information in lens tests and educational articles online, high-end Nikons and Canons just have a bunch of tunes, tweaks, settings, that are geared to completely serious users in their systems. Like there's in-camera options for which focusing screen you have installed, adjustment of playback and live view parameters like focus peaking and highlight warning sensitivities... buttons aren't HARD CODED TO JPEG SHOOTING ITEMS, and Canikon releasing APIs, making tools like FoCal possible. (Do people make custom computer programs to control their high-end full frames, for.... stuff?) Custom ISO / Shutter steps. A 1/250 flash sync. Etc. I know I'd like to install an s-type or split-type focusing screen made by my camera's OEM and have settings in the camera to make it work right. Plus, on my K-3 today, I just noticed the "maze" pattern evident in the dark region of the dynamic range, at 200%. Sony's been blasted for their full-frame RAW format being lossy, but those are people who are seriously pushing the print quality potential of their cameras. I can shoot an f1.4 lens wide open at ISO 3200 on my K-3, and make perfectly usable computer-monitor sized pictures with judicious post-processing. In fact, I think the thing making me stay in APS-C and not go to M4/3 or even just carrying an RX100 is that the K-3's ergonomics are AWESOME and a DSLR (usually) has a wider shooting envelope with focusing, burst rates, FLASHES, and most of all, terrific battery life (with a grip I can shoot as long as I can buy AA batteries in a store along the way), and hey, it's rugged. All for a thousand bucks. Though as you know no camera is perfect, and personally I'm waiting for a FF camera that has an EVF, battery grip AND awesome ergonomics... it will come... I owned an RX100, and if it weren't for the form factor, performance, and in-camera USB charging (which I prefer), I would have hated it because of the haptics. I've handled the A7 and A6000... I don't like sony's design. If the K-3 had an electronic focus distance scale display accessible in live view... anywhere... and MAYBE a tilt screen.... well, I already find the K-3 to be really fast shooting "from the hip." I've had some shots I wouldn't have gotten with another camera with a fumbly interface.

What I'm saying is... Pentax is feature-rich, FOR THE PRICE. I wonder what direction they're going to take the FF. Hopefully no-holds barred, come out swinging, $4k MSRP, features people would die for, or at least be on the same playing field as other high end FFs. They don't need a $1,500 FF DSLR. Please no. There's a lot of really nice things in a $3-5k camera body. I have to live with Pentax knowing that Pentax seems to want to not totally alienate "scene mode" shooters and just not wanting to program certain useful things into software to keep their cameras affordable. It's a good balance but the extra features in another system may break the case for you.

All very good points. I think what it comes down to too (and I am sure a lot of people will agree with me on this one) is accurate and fast AF. Pentax has let us down with the AF in the past. I personally shoot only in live view but when the occasion arrives if like to have a reliable AF that won't let me down

[Outis]

If you wait for a month or so you will know the specs and the D810 may go down in price some, so why not wait and see? What will having the D810 do for your photography right now, this minute, that can't wait for a month?

I just wanted to say that this was a great user name/post combo.

[mecrox]

well, I don't own a K-3 but I do own a K-5IIs and a pair of 645zs' as well as a D810. I expect the Pentax FF to be smaller with a little higher resolution- for now. It always seems that the latest guy out of the box gets the best performance out of a sensor and I think Nikon will either use that sensor in a body next year or go one better and use the Sony 50+mp sensor or maybe even both. While Ricoh/Pentax has some nice small lenses, there is no match when it comes to big glass, macro selection, tilt-shifts and the 14-24. Pentax will have to start making some new lenses and considering the company size, don't expect too many too fast. The problem with those hi-rez sensors is you need the best glass to get the best performance. Now, IMO, Nikon also focuses batter and faster, it has a better flash system and Nikon also has weather resistant glass and bodies. I have been using their cameras for 35 years now and haven't had a lot of weather-related problems - I live on the Canadian Prairies and I have seen almost everything here from +40C to -40C - in the same year, 300mm of rain in 8 hours, 150cm of snow in a day, trying to shoot a wedding with tornado bearing down, etc. etc. Even without WR, those Nikons have survived. To me, Nikon/Canon simply have better, more complete systems.

Yes, that hits the nail right on the head. And Ricoh/Pentax cannot really compete directly with Nikon and Canon in the complete big system arena. They are a different kind of company so far as one can tell and have already said they don't intend to do that. So perhaps Pentax will be aiming for a system that is very strong in particular niches and leave the big system stuff to others. Perhaps that won't be very easy, however, because so many potential niches are already well covered and Canonikon's expertise in flash, AF and professional support are barriers to some of them, together with the vast amount of third-party support for their platforms. It will be very interesting to see how Pentax decide to play this one. My own hunch is that we should not fixate on just one camera but see it as the start of moving the whole company further up-market as FF become more attractive and APS-C less so for camera-makers.

[cfraz]

I personally shoot only in live view

Didn't expect that from someone interested in comparisons between DLSR's. Curious what would be the draw of a DSLR over mirrorless cameras for that shooting style.

[rawr]

I personally shoot only in live view but when the occasion arrives if like to have a reliable AF that won't let me down

K-3 AF is very, very reliable, especially in poor light. I shot 1300 frames the other day at a long performance gig in one session, and only a handful were OOF due to any AF fail. The D610 I also shoot from time to time couldn't have done any better.

And one forgets that many a camera - yes, even some FF Nikons - are still very troubled with profound AF flaws, like being unable to focus reliably under tungsten light. Not so the K-3, which has AF hardware that directly solves that problem, so it's AF just powers through any scene, no matter what the lighting.

I am also confused that you only shoot using Live View. Do you only shoot macro, or video? I can't imagine shooting AF intensive activities using just live view.

[redcat]

It's very hard to beat Pentax in the quality/cost battle ^^ the D810 is great for landscape but if you shoot portrait a lot, it'd be an overkill.
I just upgrade my K5IIs to the K3 and it's a great camera, I'm heading the pro way and think K3 is plenty capable to delivery world class photos !
Pentax aim for the Pro with their FF so the next FF will be even better. They already nailed the best TIPA award for K-S2, K3 and 645Z, I have no doubt the FF will get the TIPA 2015
Be a little more patient, a little bit more ^^

PS : if you want to see a huge difference in the final result, invest in a good course on post processing, example (not my photo though ) :

[RuiC]

I don't know how it is possible that some of us can take a constructive forum thread into something so negative and cynical. It's not the first time that this happens. Comments like 'buh bye' don't help anyone here. A thread like this is supposed to be for everyone to learn not to humiliate or attack if it were so

I am sorry to say this Mattox, but you have asked for it!! How can you compare real to imaginary ?? You are asking for a Wizardry exercise !!!

wizardry
the art, skills, and practices of a wizard, sorcerer, or magician .

[rawr]

I am sorry to say this Mattox, but you have asked for it!!

Indeed.
You are after all in the Pentax 'lion's den' here.

[boriscleto]

Indeed.
You are after all in the Pentax 'lion's den' here.

And the lions are getting surly.

[Mattox]

I am sorry to say this Mattox, but you have asked for it!! How can you compare real to imaginary ?? You are asking for a Wizardry exercise !!!

wizardry
the art, skills, and practices of a wizard, sorcerer, or magician .

ahahah indeed I have asked for it!!!! It does get a bit tiring though you must admit when you are trying to do something constructive not just for yourself but for Others to read and you get a bit shot down. It happens a lot on these forums

---------- Post added 09-09-15 at 07:48 AM ----------

K-3 AF is very, very reliable, especially in poor light. I shot 1300 frames the other day at a long performance gig in one session, and only a handful were OOF due to any AF fail. The D610 I also shoot from time to time couldn't have done any better.

And one forgets that many a camera - yes, even some FF Nikons - are still very troubled with profound AF flaws, like being unable to focus reliably under tungsten light. Not so the K-3, which has AF hardware that directly solves that problem, so it's AF just powers through any scene, no matter what the lighting.

I am also confused that you only shoot using Live View. Do you only shoot macro, or video? I can't imagine shooting AF intensive activities using just live view.

When I shoot landscapes I shoot in liveview. I find that I can pin point focus and it is far more accurate. When I dont shoot landscape i am Handheld and rely on the mirror. Sorry I am no pro, thats for sure, but I am very happy with my photography, is that a mistake to use liveview when taking landscapes? Am I missing out on something?

[DennisH]

how will this camera compare to the Nikon D 810 and its vast array of lenses? I am so tempted to ditch my Pentax gear and move to Nikon seeing how well the 810 is performing...if I were to jump ship would I be able to get rid of my Pentax line up (k5, 16-50 sdm, da 55-300, da 35 f2 and smc 50 a 1.7

I guess I missed the constructive part.

[btnapa]

It know it seems rediculous to jump the gun before he full frame even comes out but the question is......: how will this camera compare to the Nikon D 810 and its vast array of lenses? I am so tempted to ditch my Pentax gear and move to Nikon seeing how well the 810 is performing. The only thing that is holding me back is a little bit of faith, a dash of patient, and the fact that if I were to jump ship would I be able to get rid of my Pentax line up (k5, 16-50 sdm, da 55-300, da 35 f2 and smc 50 a 1.7

Mattox,

I think you have a valid question.

Just based on past experience and based on history, the Pentax FF should match or surpass the Nikon. After all, the Pentax FF shows up one or two years later. Hopefully, Pentax was listening and looking at the competition and trying to improve on the weaknesses of others and bring something that at least for a brief time will be the best of category... until someone else dethrones Pentax a few months later! And the game goes on...

[UncleVanya]

For some reason it hasn't ever occurred to me to wonder if my device is the best, only if my device suits me and helps me make the photos I want to make. Anything else is madness with the race in consumer electronics. Everyone leapfrogs everyone. That doesn't mean it never makes sense to jump brands. It means the jump should be for something less fleeting than better performance alone.