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09-09-2015, 09:55 AM - 1 Like   #46
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After reading all the comments and OP's responses, I am somewhat amiss by the OP's question (comparable to D810 on AF functionality). Granted that the k-5 is the least AF feature wise compared to similar competitor's models, but using the camera mostly for landscape photography really lost me. If the OP is more interested in shooting events performance, I can understand that snappy and responsive AF is important if not critical for this type of photography. I have to admit that the k-5 is not a great performer (sometimes problematic in low light) in that regard, but the k-3 has made up lots of grounds for that.

Not trying to be disrespectful, we understand the camera's AF system is important (ever since the introduction of K10D) and it has been lagging behind its competitors for years, but here we all choose Pentax knowing the shortcomings of AF simply because of the other features such as IBIS, menu system and camera ergonomics and backward compatibility with legacy (film) lenses. I agree that both Nikon and Canon offers many high quality and expensive lenses for their system, but are they suitable for my style of shooting and photography? for me, it is not (YMMV of course). And I am perfectly happy with Pentax even if it lags behind D810... I still prefer Pentax ergonomics...


Last edited by aleonx3; 09-09-2015 at 12:53 PM.
09-19-2015, 12:26 PM - 1 Like   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
Now that's the type of answer I (we) have been looking for. Great feedback
I would wait right now as well before getting into a new system with the D810, as it will be replaced IMHO around mid next year latest. So you could easily wait till next year, see how the new FF Pentax looks like and then if you have some time left till the D850/D900 comes and then decide what to do.

If I were in the Pentax camp right now as you are, I would wait for what Pentax comes up with as they do have some marvelous FF glass, especially the Limited series, which Nikon definitely lacks.

I guess the Pentax FF will become a stunning camera and if you do not need specific Nikkor lenses you cannot get in the Pentax lineup now or in foreseeable future, I would try to stay Pentax!
09-19-2015, 04:19 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
It know it seems rediculous to jump the gun before he full frame even comes out but the question is......: how will this camera compare to the Nikon D 810 and its vast array of lenses?
the short answer is, pentax ff can't possibly compare to the nikon lens lineup, if for no other reason than all of the third-party glass that's available in the nikon mount.

we have the same problem in ff mirrorless sony land, but we can at least use every camera lens in mf mode, at the minimum... which is how landscapes should be shot.

the question really should be, what are you shooting that can't be done with 24mp crop?
09-20-2015, 10:09 PM - 3 Likes   #49
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Well, since now the FF Camera is now delayed to 2016, it sure as hell better be better than the D810, since it will be two years old by the time it comes out!

09-21-2015, 04:41 PM   #50
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Hopefully more progressive. I dont know why nikon refuses to give us high bitrates and we are just seeing the same old 24 mb/sec h264 thing every time. I think nikon's controls are top notch though and i think pentax could learn a thing or two from them when it comes to the twiddly bits on their cameras. Canon already has a cool "smart viewfinder" in the 7dmk2, i dont know why nikon isnt doing anything like that.
10-06-2015, 10:07 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
After reading all the comments and OP's responses, I am somewhat amiss by the OP's question (comparable to D810 on AF functionality). Granted that the k-5 is the least AF feature wise compared to similar competitor's models, but using the camera mostly for landscape photography really lost me. If the OP is more interested in shooting events performance, I can understand that snappy and responsive AF is important if not critical for this type of photography. I have to admit that the k-5 is not a great performer (sometimes problematic in low light) in that regard, but the k-3 has made up lots of grounds for that.

Not trying to be disrespectful, we understand the camera's AF system is important (ever since the introduction of K10D) and it has been lagging behind its competitors for years, but here we all choose Pentax knowing the shortcomings of AF simply because of the other features such as IBIS, menu system and camera ergonomics and backward compatibility with legacy (film) lenses. I agree that both Nikon and Canon offers many high quality and expensive lenses for their system, but are they suitable for my style of shooting and photography? for me, it is not (YMMV of course). And I am perfectly happy with Pentax even if it lags behind D810... I still prefer Pentax ergonomics...
I actually sold all my Pentax (digital) gear this year and moved to Nikon. I have had the D810, two Zeiss lenses and a couple of Nikon lenses for a few months. I think my Pentax system was great value for money, but the reason I moved was the availability of higher quality and affordable lenses. I was considering a move to Pentax Medium format but could not afford the 645Z (a great camera), and purchased the D810 as "almost medium quality" format camera. I have been very pleased with it, particularly with the Zeiss lenses. It is heavier than the K3, but not that difficult to manage. I wish it had more aids for manual focus, but it works fine, I just have to keep the shutter speed high (no shake reduction in camera or lenses I own) and the technique precise.

Overall, I would have liked to stay with Pentax, but didn't know where to go with lenses on the upcoming FF. It is almost certain the new sensor in the FF will outresolve the FA Limiteds (which I had all three), so I was looking at Leitax or some other solution to place higher resolving lenses on the camera. In the end I am pleased with my decision. Pentax is still close to my heart, but as I am starting to do some commercial work now, the Nikon suits me well. I have been a Pentax shooter since I was 18 years old, some 42 years now, so hope that things will go well for the launch. For me, at the end of the day, it was the better quality lenses which made the decision for me. After all the camera body is becoming the disposable item in our equipment decisions, as better bodies comes along every couple of years.
10-07-2015, 01:13 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
Overall, I would have liked to stay with Pentax, but didn't know where to go with lenses on the upcoming FF
interesting quote.
I'm very happy with my k3 & lens set i have.
But for FF (regardless whether i need it or not), not sure. I like the Sigma Art series. Next to the fact that only a few of these are available for pentax, I think nikon mount might simply be the better investment.
In the end, we're not talking petty cash anymore.
10-07-2015, 05:50 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattox Quote
It know it seems rediculous to jump the gun before he full frame even comes out but the question is......: how will this camera compare to the Nikon D 810 and its vast array of lenses? I am so tempted to ditch my Pentax gear and move to Nikon seeing how well the 810 is performing. The only thing that is holding me back is a little bit of faith, a dash of patient, and the fact that if I were to jump ship would I be able to get rid of my Pentax line up (k5, 16-50 sdm, da 55-300, da 35 f2 and smc 50 a 1.7
Even if you wait, can you really expect that Ricoh is going to match Nikons lense line-up? So you maybe should rather ask yourself what lenses you really need and not compare a D 810 with a camera you don't know much about. Your original question "how will this camera compare to the Nikon D 810 and its vast array of lenses" is not answerable, because there will not be this vast array of lenses for Pentax.

10-07-2015, 02:38 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
It is almost certain the new sensor in the FF will outresolve the FA Limiteds (which I had all three),
Not trying to be difficult but - based on what? The pixel pitch of the current K50 is already smaller than the D810 so the lenses already show resolution at the pixel level that exceeds typically full frame. The K3 pixel pitch is smaller than the 50mp Canon sensors as well. I don't doubt there are other qualities that the lenses may fall short on but resolution doesn't seem likely to be the big problem.
10-07-2015, 09:11 PM - 1 Like   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Not trying to be difficult but - based on what? The pixel pitch of the current K50 is already smaller than the D810 so the lenses already show resolution at the pixel level that exceeds typically full frame. The K3 pixel pitch is smaller than the 50mp Canon sensors as well. I don't doubt there are other qualities that the lenses may fall short on but resolution doesn't seem likely to be the big problem.
+1

Much has been written about this but to cut to the chase - current sensors, even 50MP ones, do not 'out-resolve' lenses. An MTF score is a combo of sensor + lens, and the higher-MP the sensor, the higher the MTF given the same lens.

In other words, the FA limiteds will resolve more as you throw more MP at them - the rate of increase in MTF may slow down as you approach 100MP, but there is no such thing (in practical current terms) as 'sensors out-resolving lenses'.
10-07-2015, 10:19 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Not trying to be difficult but - based on what? The pixel pitch of the current K50 is already smaller than the D810 so the lenses already show resolution at the pixel level that exceeds typically full frame. The K3 pixel pitch is smaller than the 50mp Canon sensors as well. I don't doubt there are other qualities that the lenses may fall short on but resolution doesn't seem likely to be the big problem.
Well picked up.........Just another case of somebody saying silly stuff as though fact......I reckon.
10-08-2015, 03:38 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
+1

Much has been written about this but to cut to the chase - current sensors, even 50MP ones, do not 'out-resolve' lenses. An MTF score is a combo of sensor + lens, and the higher-MP the sensor, the higher the MTF given the same lens.

In other words, the FA limiteds will resolve more as you throw more MP at them - the rate of increase in MTF may slow down as you approach 100MP, but there is no such thing (in practical current terms) as 'sensors out-resolving lenses'.
This really isn't true, Jay. The actual resolution difference you see between a K5 and K3 is minimal. Yes, there is some improvement, but you have to be stopped down to see it and no, I don't see much difference at all at any f stop on my old Promaster 28-200 zoom. The reality is that it is tough to get pixel level sharpness with really high pixel density -- some of this related to diffraction, some to lens sharpness, and some to photographer technique.

Clearly the FA limiteds will be fine on a full frame sensor (they are expensive enough, they should be), but I don't truly believe that all lenses will be great on full frame. Many will require quite a bit of stopping down in order to achieve border sharpness and many older zooms will be out resolved by current 36 megapixel sensors, particularly in the border regions.
10-08-2015, 09:24 AM   #58
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i've put dozens of cheap old legacy lenses on the a7r, and without fail, they all rock in the center areas, but the wide glass does indeed have issues on the sides.

you can see that here, a7r vs. canon 5dmkii, the higher mp just kills it in the center, not so dramatic on the sides: LensRentals.com - Sony A7R: A Rising Tide Lifts All the Boats?

lens design becomes a major factor, and a few wide lenses, like the batis 25mm, will take advantage of more mp all the way across the frame.
10-08-2015, 04:37 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
i've put dozens of cheap old legacy lenses on the a7r, and without fail, they all rock in the center areas, but the wide glass does indeed have issues on the sides.

you can see that here, a7r vs. canon 5dmkii, the higher mp just kills it in the center, not so dramatic on the sides: LensRentals.com - Sony A7R: A Rising Tide Lifts All the Boats?

lens design becomes a major factor, and a few wide lenses, like the batis 25mm, will take advantage of more mp all the way across the frame.
True enough but check them out on the A7RII. Most of the problems are gone. A few old wide angle rangefinder lenses still have problems but most report the problems they had with earlier A7 versions are solved with the A7RII. Not all mirrorless or even A7 series cameras are the same.
10-08-2015, 09:00 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
True enough but check them out on the A7RII. Most of the problems are gone. A few old wide angle rangefinder lenses still have problems but most report the problems they had with earlier A7 versions are solved with the A7RII. Not all mirrorless or even A7 series cameras are the same.
A7RII fixes the color cast issues, but smearing and other problems caused by the thick cover class are still the same.
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