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09-18-2015, 10:06 AM   #1
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existing lenses on new FF

How will the existing lenses do on it? I am on the fence on upgrading my current stock lens on K5 so it can be a back up body, then buy FF when it comes out with new lenses that are developed.

Thinking Sigma sense 2.8 16-55 or the DA of this(which I've heard back things about) for my K5

09-18-2015, 10:20 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by tpentax Quote
How will the existing lenses do on it? I am on the fence on upgrading my current stock lens on K5 so it can be a back up body, then buy FF when it comes out with new lenses that are developed.

Thinking Sigma sense 2.8 16-55 or the DA of this(which I've heard back things about) for my K5
They will do "wider" in general on FF.


What are you really asking about? And how would we know specifics as the camera is not out?
09-18-2015, 10:29 AM   #3
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Detailed info on the camera is not yet available but here's the basic info you may want:

1) DA lenses will work on it. (Crop factor lenses) it is not clear what control over the crop applied will be able to be exercised by the end user. This could mean that a lens like the DA 35 f/2.4 which has been shown to work well on film full frame might only shoot in APSC 1.5x crop mode - or it could mean that this will be a setting that could be set globally or per lens or even that there might be in between crop ratios etc.

2) FA lenses should work on it as full frame. It is not clear if the in body stabilization features will always work as desired but most information indicates that it should. FA lenses used in this way will have effectively a much wider field of view and if you are used to using your 50mm as a portrait lens you might find it works less like that than a 77 or 85mm does on the FF body. Essentially reverse the crop factor if you are used to APSC. Your 50 on Full Frame acts like a 35 does today on the APSC body.

3) D FA lenses will work full frame for sure. No modification no junk. As far as we understand things it appears that a crop mode will be available but until the camera is released who knows how that will be implemented and what compromises are required. For one thing it is not clear how the viewfinder will indicate crop. The visual aids for this are unknown.

4) DA lens hoods may be too large for Full frame (uncropped) use without vignetting. There may be aftermarket or Pentax solutions for this for those lenses that have a large image circle and cover full frame but have a too narrow or too long hood.

Does that help?

Last edited by UncleVanya; 09-18-2015 at 11:40 AM.
09-18-2015, 10:30 AM   #4
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Some things already exist about this. Basically, DFA and FA and older lenses will be normal. Some DA lenses might vignette in the corners, but not all. All the lenses you are already used to will simply appear to be wider angle. And since a part of their projected image circle will not be recorded, that previously wasn't, the corners will probably be worse than what you were used to (since what was "the corners" previously is actually closer to the centre on FF)

Here are two:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/54-pentax-lens-articles/31629-da-lenses-f...ts-thread.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/183420-curr...me-lenses.html

I think there are others, as well, but not sure of their titles. If you use a lens that is not FF compatible, the corners might be dark or poor quality. Not a big problem - just crop the photo and it will look exactly as the lens does on APSC. The camera will probably have built in cropping options for this purpose.

09-18-2015, 10:34 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by tpentax Quote
Thinking Sigma sense 2.8 16-55 or the DA of this(which I've heard back things about) for my K5
Specifically, the image circle of the Pentax DA* 16-50/2.8 doesn't cover FF, I'd expect the sigma variant doesn't either:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/54-pentax-lens-articles/31629-da-lenses-f...tml#post470261
09-18-2015, 10:38 AM   #6
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Just look op the lens you want to know about and Canon 5D you'll find plenty of samples. It's easy to adapt K-mount and m-42 to Canon.
09-18-2015, 11:15 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by tpentax Quote
How will the existing lenses do on it?
They will do what they always do. Lenses are dumb and don't know what camera they are mounted to. This you can expect optically:
  • Lenses originally designed for 24x36 FF will perform at least as well as they did on 35mm film and maybe better
  • Lenses originally designed for APS-C will have utility to the extent of their image circle on the sensor and the image quality within that circle. If the new camera has an APS-C crop mode, performance will be at least as good as with existing APS-C cameras with similar pixel count (within the crop boundaries) and maybe better.
  • No lens will perform worse within their design-goal image circle*
Having said the above, there may be some variation in supported features. For example if the mount has limited AF capabilities (e.g. KAF3...highly unlikely) screw-drive lenses may be limited to manual focus only. Likewise, if there are new mount-related features keyed to next generation lenses, those will not be migrated down to existing lens models.


Steve

(...there really should be a sticky on this topic...)

* There are some considerations with vintage glass and interactions with digital sensors, but those are not unique to FF

Last edited by stevebrot; 09-18-2015 at 11:23 AM.
09-18-2015, 11:39 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by tpentax Quote
How will the existing lenses do on it? I am on the fence on upgrading my current stock lens on K5 so it can be a back up body, then buy FF when it comes out with new lenses that are developed.

Thinking Sigma sense 2.8 16-55 or the DA of this(which I've heard back things about) for my K5
Lenses with 16-xx or 18-xx focal lengths will almost surely be restricted to a crop mode on the FF, but Pentax has stated that they should be supported in such a mode.


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09-19-2015, 12:36 PM   #9
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This question might have been discussed else where, but going to ask anyways

What are the chances of a new FF standard zoom coming out at the same time as the FF?

Something that rivals or comes close to either the Nikon 24-70, or the Canon EF 24-70.

Isn't/shouldn't such a lens be a part of a basic arsenal for a Camera of this caliber? I am super excited to use my FA 31, crossing my fingers that screwdrive support is on that thing
09-19-2015, 03:19 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by NicZh Quote
What are the chances of a new FF standard zoom coming out at the same time as the FF?
Nobody knows. There is a lens roadmap, but I don't think its accurate. I definitely hope there will be some surprises. Telephoto DFA zoom lenses are coming out, but we need a wide angle and a standard DFA zoom, as well. Many current DA primes (almost all?) are already FF compatible, though. And there are many third party options, with more coming as the FF comes out. I think most people's needs will be covered one way or another very soon.
09-19-2015, 06:30 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by NicZh Quote
What are the chances of a new FF standard zoom coming out at the same time as the FF?
There have been direct hints from kenspo that a 24-70 f2.8 will arrive with the FF. And the lens road map also suggests that a 24-105 may also arrive - to possibly be available as a kit lens option with the FF (as happens with Canon FF and the 24-105 f4 L).
09-19-2015, 06:59 PM   #12
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I started a Lens Club to showcase the lenses on FF.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/122-lens-clubs/247282-pentax-lenses-ff-club.html
Mostly to show people not to engage in too much conspiracy theories and scaremongering over the lenses.



Many work great. (smallish; still nice optically; well made for MF)
Old UWA might have edge issues if Pentax chooses a thick filter stack like what Sony did.
35mm and above, no issues in general for old lenses except for perhaps Biotar and Sonnar 50mm designs.


The topic has been brought up quite a few times here in this section and I do think some links have been provided to them.
09-22-2015, 05:14 AM   #13
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This is really two related questions:

1) How will the DA lenses be handled? (Already discussed to death, here and elsewhere.)

2) Will the current generation of full-frame sensors (whichever one Pentax chooses) show up imperfections in film-era lenses that film would not have?

I think we wouldn't have had issue #2 if Pentax had released a full-frame camera long ago when sensors were still in the 12MP range. I was once told that this is about where digital would start to show superiority to 35mm film in resolution/grain terms. Now all of a sudden the lenses of 20 to 40 years ago are being expected to show their mettle on 40-plus MP sensors with no time for slow evolution (of either the lens design or the photographers' expectations!!!). I think people are right to ask whether they're up to it, even if those with mirrorless or otherwise Pentax-compatible FF cameras have already done the experiment and pronounced themselves satisfied.

If you've only ever shot APS-C digital and you want to know what the FOV is going to be like on full-frame, buy yourself a cheap Pentax film camera (there are lots going), run off a few rolls and find out directly. Keep notes so you can keep track of which lenses you mounted (or note which one you started with, and use it to take a picture of the next lens just before you put it on). Or if you've got a friend close by with a compatible camera and the adapter (as required), borrow it, put your own memory card in, and proceed likewise. But bear in mind, it's not just the sensor - it's the processing algorithm behind it, and this will vary between companies, even for the same physical sensor component. So what you get on Pentax FF possibly will not (in colour/tonal etc. terms) be exactly what you got on Sony or Canon, although they will be a general good guide. For all we know, though, lens to lens variability MIGHT be a more dominant variable.
09-22-2015, 06:13 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
2) Will the current generation of full-frame sensors (whichever one Pentax chooses) show up imperfections in film-era lenses that film would not have?
The 'imperfections' debate throws up a number of interesting issues.

One perspective on the issue is that many of those film era lenses were not imperfect themselves, but were instead simply let down by the limitations of film - the chemistry of it, the uneven way it lay in the camera, the way it was processed and printed. Now, in the era of high resolution digital sensors, those old lenses are finally able to show their true capabilities without film getting in the way.

In evaluating old 'film era' lenses on digital we also have to note that you may now run images shot with 'imperfect' lenses through in-camera corrections, or Lightroom, PTLens, Capture One, DxO Optics Pro or other tools, and with a press of a button, vignetting, geometric distortion, CA etc can be corrected better than they could ever have been in the film processing lab. And some programs - eg DxO - might even automatically apply a touch of tailored deconvolution to sharpen up those soft edges too. So modern high-resolution systems won't reveal 'imperfections' in old glass, they may directly make even 'imperfect' old glass perform better.
09-22-2015, 06:19 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Now, in the era of high resolution digital sensors, those old lenses are finally able to show their true capabilities without film getting in the way.

In evaluating old 'film era' lenses on digital we also have to note that you may now run images shot with 'imperfect' lenses through in-camera corrections,
True, all of it. From what the Sony/Canon crowd are reporting, I don't think users of film-era Pentax lenses actually have anything to worry about - if anything it's going to be the photographer who is the biggest variable, and only the most obsessive of pixel-peepers will be coming here to range and vent and scream "Pentax is dooooooomed!".

I cropped out the bits about post-production software because true as it is, not everybody uses it or can afford it, and I'm primarily focused on what the camera itself can do.
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