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patarok · 10-16-2015, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I only see a DSLR teaser on www.pentax.com... is there anything else?

no. just that some tech related to that in an A99 would fit a DSLR body.

Since we saw the pictures on pentax.com we all knew that an Interchangeble mirrorbox(mountbox) or some other modularity like swappable sensor units, what really was an "adamnt" rumour and so on, will stay in Fantasyland for a little longer than we thought.
Maybe also that new mirror-tech, that was rumoured about and a patent was filed for(verifiably)... But who knows... We won't affect what comes out of japan just by fancying around.

But i have to admit that some real innovation like the ones mentioned above could really make me buy it for a 2000 whoopi whoopi... Otherwise i'll wait for a price drop later on, a used body or the 2nd generation.

Kunzite · 10-16-2015, 07:10 AM

SLTs made sense some years ago, but not now, when there's reasonably fast (and improving) on-sensor AF.

I knew that the Rube Goldberg-like interchangeable whatever module won't be implemented anytime soon when I first heard of it

You want "some real innovation" but won't pay more than "2000 whoopi whoopi" (I'm not familiar with the whoopi whoopi currency, but it can't be more than the euro)?

**Kerrowdown** · 10-16-2015, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by AtitG

What if the new FF camera is mirrorless?

I wont be able to apply my lippy...

kenspo · 10-16-2015, 12:03 PM

The FF does exist, it is NOT mirrorless, Ricoh will try to reach pro's and they will continue with APS-C too.

**UncleVanya** · 10-16-2015, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by kenspo

The FF does exist, it is NOT mirrorless, Ricoh will try to reach pro's and they will continue with APS-C too.

You're resorting to facts? I'm so disappointed. LOL

kenspo · 10-16-2015, 12:26 PM

Sorry...wont do it again

**UncleVanya** · 10-16-2015, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by kenspo

Sorry...wont do it again

Promises promises....

6BQ5 · 10-16-2015, 12:51 PM

My guess is also that the FF will have some sort of variably controlled translucent mirror. Whether the sensor will have PDAF on it or if the AF module will be old school style is anyone's guess.

**UncleVanya** · 10-16-2015, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by 6BQ5

My guess is also that the FF will have some sort of variably controlled translucent mirror. Whether the sensor will have PDAF on it or if the AF module will be old school style is anyone's guess.

Why? I would expect a standard normal mirror box like Canon and Nikon and Pentax use in all current DSLR's. Canon went down that path but abandoned it. Sony too has essentially abandoned it.

6BQ5 · 10-16-2015, 02:43 PM

I thought the other solutions had a fixed translucence, something like 50%. If I remember correctly Ricoh released a patent a few months ago that described a system where the translucence could be varied from 3% to 97%.

mohb · 10-16-2015, 02:52 PM

Pentax will no doubt come out with something special for the 'full frame' but I can't imagine them 'experimenting' too much on such an impotant camera release

Kunzite · 10-16-2015, 04:06 PM

Wow. Common sense. A rarity around here

Indeed, one shouldn't expect experimental technology among other things on this first (to be successfully launched) Pentax FF DSLR. Every addition costs money, R&D is expensive (and time consuming) - even more so when they would have to work on every FF-related component. Just making a new body, viewfinder system including mirror, AF system, SR supporting the larger sensor etc. would strain their limited resources. At the same time, people are hoping for a cheap camera...

P.S. Hopefully, by 'impotant' you meant 'important'

Na Horuk · 10-17-2015, 04:46 AM

Yeah, I agree. This first FF will be very classical, I think it will be basically the K-3II, just with bigger sensor and some more speed.
Later, Pentax might make a FF S series, which might have experimental shape or features. But this will come much later, and only if the first FF is successful enough.

D1N0 · 10-17-2015, 05:40 AM

Let's make a mirrorless camera with a dslr registration distance. Let's ask marc Newson to design it. O wait. We have one lying about somewhere! Let's issue it as a K-02 with FF sensor. Ron Hendriks knows all about that, just ask him.

patarok · 10-17-2015, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

You want "some real innovation" but won't pay more than "2000 whoopi whoopi" (I'm not familiar with the whoopi whoopi currency, but it can't be more than the euro)?

Whoopi is Tattoine(STAR WARS) Currency(.... It just happened that I use it for a universal currency - since dollar, pounds, euro, pff! for the producers of "photographic tools" it all seems to be the same currency when you compare the price tags in euro and dollar.
please dont tell me about shipping costs otherwise I may get a conniption.

They just dont care about the currencies values... There are people checking out if there are enough people on the market who are willing to just pay.
And if there are enough of them on a destined market, the price gets raised. Easy as that. (no innovation needed for that)

K-3 black, Body only. -> official price in the U.S.A according to Ricoh Imaging Americas Corporation is : 799 Dollars that would be ---> app. 700Euro
BUT
K-3 black, Body only. -> official price in the E.U.(Germany) according to Startseite - RICOH IMAGING DEUTSCHLAND GmbH 999 Euro that would be ---> app. 1130 Dollar

that is a difference of app. 330 Dollars. hm. Where is my innovation i would have to get according to your assumptions?

What would Hasselblad users have to get for their money? compare a Pentax 645Z with a Hasselblad... Pentax blows away the Hasselblad in ANY aspect.
Still a Hasselblad body costs 28000whoopi... and a Pentax 645Z costs around 8000whoopi so where are the 20000whoopi of innovation and additional features...
Can it convert into a spaceship, fly you to Vulcan so you can have a short talk with Spock about the universe and everything? no. It isnt even WR nor does the hasselblad have any AF capabilities that are near to the 645Z
etc., etc.

I know that doesnt matter for you. Because most people stay true to their "beliefs" no matter what..

But let us all believe that my money is worth so i will have my extra innovations handed out later on to my K-3...
No... just won't happen. or maybe..? hm...

Conclusion: REAL INNOVATION COMES WITHOUT EXTRA PAYMENTS...

and going after common peoples logic, i would say an A99 costs app. 1600 whoopi. --- it tops out a 10stills per second,
a Canon EOS 6D with EF 24-105mm 3.5-5.6 IS STM costs app. 1700 whoopi. --- it has a pixel size of 6.58µm, and man AFAIK you can do real cool videos with Canon and they have ML-Hack available...,
a Nikon D800 body only, you can have it refurbished(shutter renewed) for about 1800 whoopi. a Nikon D600 for about 1300 NEW!!!
and dont say there is no innovation in a Sony A7II that has a price tag around 1500 whoopi.

So the deal is to get it "cooking" again for the PENTAX K-mount and therefore Ricoh-Imaging Corp. and they won't be able to, if the only FF option is a body that just says PENTAX has a FF sensor, costs 2000 whoopi but lacks innovation...

Some Pentaxians may think they are some kind of Leica owners or Pentax would be something alike... but that is not true.... PENTAX K-Mount will really have to shine out if it wants to survive as a camera system.

at the moment Pentax is just the best bang for the buck option to get into photography but, as soon as people want to go full frame and many people tend to, after they bought their first APS-C DSLR(because they may have been owner of a film SLR for instance and miss that something in composition) AND they are confronted with the whole Canon/Nikon "Phantasmagoria" and Sony A7- hype, the most are willing to jump ship.
And they also WILL be, if their only option to go FF with their system is a DSLR that doesn't offer much of of innovation and has a price tag that is 300-500 whoopi(we are allowed to expect that the competitiors may drop their prices on FF bodies)above the average FF digital body.

So, YES! I WANT SOME REAL INNOVATION AND I WILL NOT PAY MORE THAN 2000 WHOOPI FOR IT!!!!(IN EURO 1900 WILL BE ENOUGH FOR ME) otherwise i will have to wait POINT •
If you dont agree, plz send them an extra cheque, but don't rouse the salesmen to charge extra for a product, that will be what it will be anyway.

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10-16-2015, 06:34 AM	#31
patarok Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 389	Originally posted by Kunzite I only see a DSLR teaser on www.pentax.com... is there anything else? no. just that some tech related to that in an A99 would fit a DSLR body. Since we saw the pictures on pentax.com we all knew that an Interchangeble mirrorbox(mountbox) or some other modularity like swappable sensor units, what really was an "adamnt" rumour and so on, will stay in Fantasyland for a little longer than we thought. Maybe also that new mirror-tech, that was rumoured about and a patent was filed for(verifiably)... But who knows... We won't affect what comes out of japan just by fancying around. But i have to admit that some real innovation like the ones mentioned above could really make me buy it for a 2000 whoopi whoopi... Otherwise i'll wait for a price drop later on, a used body or the 2nd generation.

10-16-2015, 07:10 AM	#32
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	SLTs made sense some years ago, but not now, when there's reasonably fast (and improving) on-sensor AF. I knew that the Rube Goldberg-like interchangeable whatever module won't be implemented anytime soon when I first heard of it You want "some real innovation" but won't pay more than "2000 whoopi whoopi" (I'm not familiar with the whoopi whoopi currency, but it can't be more than the euro)?

10-16-2015, 11:35 AM	#33
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,867	Originally posted by AtitG What if the new FF camera is mirrorless? I wont be able to apply my lippy...

10-16-2015, 12:03 PM	#34
kenspo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Oslo Posts: 2,207	The FF does exist, it is NOT mirrorless, Ricoh will try to reach pro's and they will continue with APS-C too.

10-16-2015, 12:17 PM	#35
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,472	Originally posted by kenspo The FF does exist, it is NOT mirrorless, Ricoh will try to reach pro's and they will continue with APS-C too. You're resorting to facts? I'm so disappointed. LOL

10-16-2015, 12:26 PM	#36
kenspo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Oslo Posts: 2,207	Sorry...wont do it again

10-16-2015, 12:28 PM	#37
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,472	Originally posted by kenspo Sorry...wont do it again Promises promises....

10-16-2015, 12:51 PM	#38
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	My guess is also that the FF will have some sort of variably controlled translucent mirror. Whether the sensor will have PDAF on it or if the AF module will be old school style is anyone's guess.

10-16-2015, 02:41 PM	#39
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,472	Originally posted by 6BQ5 My guess is also that the FF will have some sort of variably controlled translucent mirror. Whether the sensor will have PDAF on it or if the AF module will be old school style is anyone's guess. Why? I would expect a standard normal mirror box like Canon and Nikon and Pentax use in all current DSLR's. Canon went down that path but abandoned it. Sony too has essentially abandoned it.

10-16-2015, 02:43 PM	#40
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	I thought the other solutions had a fixed translucence, something like 50%. If I remember correctly Ricoh released a patent a few months ago that described a system where the translucence could be varied from 3% to 97%.

10-16-2015, 02:52 PM	#41
mohb Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,912	Pentax will no doubt come out with something special for the 'full frame' but I can't imagine them 'experimenting' too much on such an impotant camera release

10-16-2015, 04:06 PM	#42
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Wow. Common sense. A rarity around here Indeed, one shouldn't expect experimental technology among other things on this first (to be successfully launched) Pentax FF DSLR. Every addition costs money, R&D is expensive (and time consuming) - even more so when they would have to work on every FF-related component. Just making a new body, viewfinder system including mirror, AF system, SR supporting the larger sensor etc. would strain their limited resources. At the same time, people are hoping for a cheap camera... P.S. Hopefully, by 'impotant' you meant 'important'

10-17-2015, 04:46 AM	#43
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Yeah, I agree. This first FF will be very classical, I think it will be basically the K-3II, just with bigger sensor and some more speed. Later, Pentax might make a FF S series, which might have experimental shape or features. But this will come much later, and only if the first FF is successful enough.

10-17-2015, 05:40 AM	#44
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Let's make a mirrorless camera with a dslr registration distance. Let's ask marc Newson to design it. O wait. We have one lying about somewhere! Let's issue it as a K-02 with FF sensor. Ron Hendriks knows all about that, just ask him.

10-17-2015, 05:44 AM	#45
patarok Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 389	Originally posted by Kunzite You want "some real innovation" but won't pay more than "2000 whoopi whoopi" (I'm not familiar with the whoopi whoopi currency, but it can't be more than the euro)? Whoopi is Tattoine(STAR WARS) Currency(.... It just happened that I use it for a universal currency - since dollar, pounds, euro, pff! for the producers of "photographic tools" it all seems to be the same currency when you compare the price tags in euro and dollar. please dont tell me about shipping costs otherwise I may get a conniption. They just dont care about the currencies values... There are people checking out if there are enough people on the market who are willing to just pay. And if there are enough of them on a destined market, the price gets raised. Easy as that. (no innovation needed for that) K-3 black, Body only. -> official price in the U.S.A according to Ricoh Imaging Americas Corporation is : 799 Dollars that would be ---> app. 700Euro BUT K-3 black, Body only. -> official price in the E.U.(Germany) according to Startseite - RICOH IMAGING DEUTSCHLAND GmbH 999 Euro that would be ---> app. 1130 Dollar that is a difference of app. 330 Dollars. hm. Where is my innovation i would have to get according to your assumptions? What would Hasselblad users have to get for their money? compare a Pentax 645Z with a Hasselblad... Pentax blows away the Hasselblad in ANY aspect. Still a Hasselblad body costs 28000whoopi... and a Pentax 645Z costs around 8000whoopi so where are the 20000whoopi of innovation and additional features... Can it convert into a spaceship, fly you to Vulcan so you can have a short talk with Spock about the universe and everything? no. It isnt even WR nor does the hasselblad have any AF capabilities that are near to the 645Z etc., etc. I know that doesnt matter for you. Because most people stay true to their "beliefs" no matter what.. But let us all believe that my money is worth so i will have my extra innovations handed out later on to my K-3... No... just won't happen. or maybe..? hm... Conclusion: REAL INNOVATION COMES WITHOUT EXTRA PAYMENTS... and going after common peoples logic, i would say an A99 costs app. 1600 whoopi. --- it tops out a 10stills per second, a Canon EOS 6D with EF 24-105mm 3.5-5.6 IS STM costs app. 1700 whoopi. --- it has a pixel size of 6.58µm, and man AFAIK you can do real cool videos with Canon and they have ML-Hack available..., a Nikon D800 body only, you can have it refurbished(shutter renewed) for about 1800 whoopi. a Nikon D600 for about 1300 NEW!!! and dont say there is no innovation in a Sony A7II that has a price tag around 1500 whoopi. So the deal is to get it "cooking" again for the PENTAX K-mount and therefore Ricoh-Imaging Corp. and they won't be able to, if the only FF option is a body that just says PENTAX has a FF sensor, costs 2000 whoopi but lacks innovation... Some Pentaxians may think they are some kind of Leica owners or Pentax would be something alike... but that is not true.... PENTAX K-Mount will really have to shine out if it wants to survive as a camera system. at the moment Pentax is just the best bang for the buck option to get into photography but, as soon as people want to go full frame and many people tend to, after they bought their first APS-C DSLR(because they may have been owner of a film SLR for instance and miss that something in composition) AND they are confronted with the whole Canon/Nikon "Phantasmagoria" and Sony A7- hype, the most are willing to jump ship. And they also WILL be, if their only option to go FF with their system is a DSLR that doesn't offer much of of innovation and has a price tag that is 300-500 whoopi(we are allowed to expect that the competitiors may drop their prices on FF bodies)above the average FF digital body. So, YES! I WANT SOME REAL INNOVATION AND I WILL NOT PAY MORE THAN 2000 WHOOPI FOR IT!!!!(IN EURO 1900 WILL BE ENOUGH FOR ME) otherwise i will have to wait POINT • If you dont agree, plz send them an extra cheque, but don't rouse the salesmen to charge extra for a product, that will be what it will be anyway.