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10-29-2015, 01:49 PM   #136
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Yes, a little. But the knee jerk reactions of some people, made it worse! haha! But yes, I'm very happy and positive these days

10-29-2015, 02:00 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I'm very happy and positive these days
Good news. Now I just have to wait until I can be happy...............
10-29-2015, 02:42 PM - 2 Likes   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Another dyemention Quote
Why is Ricoh even bothering with a FF?
Cos Kerrowdown wants a couple... nuff said.
10-29-2015, 09:03 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The 'us' means everyone here who is waiting for the FF, and those elsewhere, whom you're rudely dismissing as "a waste".

FYI, higher margin products are much more valuable than low or no margin products. Let me put it this way: the 645Z costs about 8000 euro, body only. Assuming the margins (%) are identical, Pentax would have to sell ~30,000 of your less-than-DSLR cameras (estimated at 200 euro - low-end DSLRs are quite cheap, and this must be cheaper) every month to make the same money. But they aren't, they're significantly lower.

Another thing which should be obvious: playing on the larger-and-cheaper market doesn't guarantee you success. Let's take the smartphone market: Sony Mobile is in deep trouble, despite having some very good products (yep, my phone is a Sony). They're losing lots of money.
OTOH, Ricoh Imaging is very happy with the 645Z, which is from about every point of view the opposite of a smartphone's camera.
Sony doing ok with sensors and the PS4 though. I have a couple family members with sony phones, they are really nice!

And I guess I should contribute to the thread. I want a pentax FF because I have a lot of lenses that would fit it, a digital FF would breath new life into my lense collection and I've come to a place where I've hit a wall with my current camera and need to upgrade due to work reasons. A FF is a good fit for my needs but I don't like the prospect of switching to Canon or Nikon because I'd be starting at zero on my lenses and I'd never get the money out of my old pentax lenses that I sunk into them.

10-29-2015, 09:49 PM   #140
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After buying and using a 645z I am now paying more attention to pentax overall. I think their APSC DSLR's look like great and really well priced camera's. I don't think I would buy one as I have too much Canon gear but I would be interested in the new FF if it had some innovative features a large sensor and some nice prime lenses to go with it. I would actually think about partially moving my DSLR kit to Pentax (ie for general purpose stuff - I would keep my Canon gear that I need for wildlife). What would be a big incentive for me though is if Pentax were to produce an adaptor to allow 645 lenses to be used on the FF DSLR with full aperture control. I don't know enough about the way they two systems work to know if this is even possible but it would nice to have a backup camera that could still use the incredible 28-45 lens that I have.
11-12-2015, 09:53 AM   #141
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Coming to this thread a little late...

I arrived with Pentax, via occasional Pentax film use to regular K-3 use. FFs were originally not affordable. Oddly, perhaps, I have never so much as handled a modern FF camera until this weekend (not used, just handled) - I tend to just get on and take photos, with what I have. I did expect the cameras and lenses to be big and heavy, but not that big and heavy. I have used a 645Z, but I was expecting that to be a big beast and for the exceptional quality, I'd accept the size. However, I am somewhat in the OPs camp. I hope Ricoh produce a stunning, innovative FF camera and I'll be tempted, but ... it's the size of the kit that bothers me, especially the lenses.

I tried the top of range Sony and the camera is small, but the lenses dwarf it and unbalance the camera, I feel. So maybe a big FF helps, there for balance - still big kit, though.

I guess, Ricoh are a little stuck with the K-3, what more can you do to get it any better, so why not a FF, which will pick up a lot of loyal Pentax fans. Put a K-3 and say a 50-135mm alongside a 24mp FF and a 70-200 lens and the FF is so much chunkier. There's little competition for Pentax's small primes, which score for carry-ability & quality over the rest of the field. Carrying a FF and a heavy lens is off-putting, inconvenient and a struggle in many circumstances. I guess some folk do like big things to be seen with, regardless of the practicalities...

Getting the quality, even for professionals, in a smaller package is where I think the bulk of buyers are looking. Perhaps Ricoh could have continued to push ahead with cropped and MF cameras, rather than join the FF gang.

As I say, good luck Ricoh with the FF. I hope they do a 645z on the FF market and shake it up. But they're still be stuck with large lenses. They may have felt they needed to produce a FF to improve the brand image, but there's still going to be poor service/repair and limited lenses (total inc. 3rd party) to deal with. Hopefully, these 'issues' too will improve as Ricoh continues investing. They are doing a good job since the Hoya phase, just not convinced by FF ...

<< Don't both to regurgitate the improved potential DR, DOF of field arguments for FF, this has been done to death. So probably has the size, I suspect. It was just a bit of an eye opener to me. >>
11-12-2015, 12:18 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by 1r0nh31d3 Quote
Sony doing ok with sensors and the PS4 though. I have a couple family members with sony phones, they are really nice!
But apple has 50% of the whole smartphone market benefits while it make only 14% of units. Sony globaly has lot of products, they sell them but they have difficultly making significant money.

I know the low cost model work and it sure works for Coca Cola or Mac Donalds but Sony while able to staying alive is make a bit of money here and here and losing a bit of money here and here.

The strategy of Ricoh to sell premium products can very well work.
11-15-2015, 01:39 PM   #143
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Unfortunately I had to shift to another brand as Pentax was no longer sold or supported in my country - then I wasn't interested in FF - as in (I purchased a k10D) those days FF DSLR were beasts, incredibly expensive, massive (Nikon D3S) & heavy- I couldn't see the point.

Only when Nikon produced the D750 did my eyebrows raise - here was a dslr that was not much larger nor heavier than my D7000 - and had advanced technologies stuffed into it.

A poster referred to the ability to post social sites etc - this can be done from the D750 already - I shoot in raw, develop the raw in cam, upload via wi-fi to my iPhone 6 plus - I then use the Photoshop express app (connected to Creative Cloud) to do some final tweaks and upload to FB.

This gives my a distinct advantage over all the cell phone pic takes at a party I'm covering or other functions - crucial pics are quickly developed on site and I send the pics via sms to the client - who can post my pics to FB

The pic below was done exactly as described above - shot at ISO 10000 - while not perfect - it certainly beats any pic taken with a cellphone



What on earth is taking Pentax so long to give their loyal user base something similar or better.

11-15-2015, 01:54 PM   #144
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Regarding the big lenses for the Pentax FF camera; I do expect Pentax to release some new primes. And those, with the Pentax DNA, could provide a smaller package. 2016 has been named as the year those will appear. And while you wait for them there still is a lot of legacy glass around that really isn't that big!
11-15-2015, 06:00 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by dylansalt Quote
What on earth is taking Pentax so long to give their loyal user base something similar or better.
Their engineer go to all parties in Japan to check the ergonomics of new facebook software integrated in the FF so they wake up late and don't have time to do any productive work during the day !

(Besire any camera can develop raw on the camera and K3, K3-II and 645Z allow you to send picture over wifi to your phone if it that you want).
11-15-2015, 06:04 PM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote

(Besire any camera can develop raw on the camera and K3, K3-II and 645Z allow you to send picture over wifi to your phone if it that you want).

Yep, same with K-S1, K-S2, RIcoh GR.
11-16-2015, 01:24 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by dylansalt Quote
What on earth is taking Pentax so long to give their loyal user base something similar or better.
This will come soon... In the meantime, I shooted that 2 years ago... Look, this isn't that bad neither...

K5, DA35 f/2.4 @f/3.5, 1/50s, iso 8000. If you count that I upped the exposure by 0.16EV and and boosted a bit the middle tones, that's actuall iso 10000.

When you think of it, to take this shoot at f/3.5 you need what? A K5 that cost you no more than 300$ and a DA35 f/2.4 that isn't going to cost you no more than 130$. Total cost: 430$. If you want the wifi, that's a K-S1 you need so that maybe 500-550$ to spend.

Your picture has much softer/better light but this doesn't come from the camera but more the scene. If you look at the details, you would not beat any sharpness record neither. The picture is ok for a facebook share or a small print.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 01-31-2017 at 02:03 PM.
11-16-2015, 01:30 AM   #148
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Not sharp, even at this size.
11-16-2015, 02:11 AM - 1 Like   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Not sharp, even at this size.
Yeah I know, the FF picture is plain soft, no details in the beards, the pants look soft in particular the one of the left. On other parts of the pictures it look oversharpened.

Theses pictures both the FF and APSC are just acceptable for a facebook share or for memories.

Hey even if it was iso 100, perfectly sharp, none of the 2 photos would have won an award... Photography is not just after ultimate high iso performance

Last edited by Nicolas06; 11-16-2015 at 02:30 AM.
11-16-2015, 03:55 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Not sharp, even at this size.
Neither photo -- the D600 one or the K5 one is particularly great. They capture moments better than a smart phone, you can say that, but they don't manufacture light. Probably better to use a lower iso and an external flash if you really want decent output.

Full frame gives a little better than a stop better high iso output. Sometimes people exaggerate that: "You can shoot iso 12,000 with no problem." Well, you can, but only if you are satisfied with iso 6400 on current APS-C cameras. I personally only use these isos for situations where there is no choice, but as I said before, if you want to capture memories, sometimes you have no choice.
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