Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-08-2015, 11:13 AM   #31
Site Supporter
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 2,951
Humm..... i really though that kind of thread was died enough not to mention.....

10-08-2015, 11:14 AM   #32
New Member




Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 11
Q

QuoteOriginally posted by Another dyemention Quote
I guess my original thought process was there is such a gap in the market between camera phones/tablets and dslrs that why not focus on that? Mirrorless cameras are small, fashionable, cool, and take much better pictures than an iphone. Sure they may not be up to a dslr IQ but they are fine for most people. [COLOR="Silver"]
You know Ricoh already makes a Pentax mirrorless camera that sits between smart phones and DSLRs, right?
10-08-2015, 11:20 AM   #33
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 410
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by weinelm Quote
You know Ricoh already makes a Pentax mirrorless camera that sits between smart phones and DSLRs, right?
I know. But what are they doing with it? And I'm not just saying another mirrorless camera. Im also talking about some kind of app or a tablet that goes along with it for editing. Something decent but basic. Exposure, contrast, tint, sharpness, yada yada. All the basic stuff from say lr5. Something that will bridge that gap and bring better quality images together with the convenience and portability of a tablet. They can actually get together with samsung who's cameras stink anyhow but have awesome tabs. Maybe they can even take over the crap nx cameras from them and just improve on the design.

Last edited by Another dyemention; 10-08-2015 at 11:26 AM.
10-08-2015, 11:29 AM - 2 Likes   #34
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2010
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,240
QuoteOriginally posted by Another dyemention Quote
I know. But what are they doing with it? And I'm not just saying another mirrorless camera. Im also talking about some kind of app or a tablet that goes along with it for editing. Something decent but basic. Exposure, contrast, tint, sharpness, yada yada. All the basic stuff from say lr5. Something that will bridge that gap and bring better quality images together with the convenience and portability of a tablet. They can actually get together with samsung who's cameras stink anyhow but have awesome tabs. Maybe they can even take over the crap nx cameras from them and just improve on the design.
It seems a complicated way of ensuring Pentax is Doomed.

10-08-2015, 11:35 AM   #35
Forum Member




Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 50
Just me ....

For me the motivation to buy Pentax FF is viewfinder.

After using APS-C DSLR cameras, I had an opportunity to look through a FF Nikon D700 with f2.8 zoom attached. It was like a 35 mm film viewfinder from the old days.

Sure I am interested in what else Ricoh may put into the FF but for me the motivation is using existing Pentax lenses with a great viewfinder. I will pay money for that.

I also own a Nikon 1 system for online photos for friends -- I do not want a Pentax mirror-less -- I want an awesome DSLR FF viewfinder.
10-08-2015, 11:40 AM   #36
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 410
Original Poster
Yes. The nikon 1 is a good start to what I was thinking. But taking it a step further to incorporates that with editing on a tablet.
I'll admit, this is getting out of hand. I don't know why I'm even putting this much effort into this thread lol. I haven't done a damn thing at work all day and for what? To debate about a hypothetical situation that is completely irrelevant to anyone's life. But at least it helped pass the time today.

---------- Post added 10-08-15 at 11:42 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
It seems a complicated way of ensuring Pentax is Doomed.
Lol this was my goal from the start.
10-08-2015, 11:44 AM   #37
Pentaxian
starbase218's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Groningen, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,019
QuoteOriginally posted by Another dyemention Quote
I'm relatively new to photography so maybe it's just my lack of experience and knowledge talking, but I really don't understand why ricoh is wasting any time and money at all on a FF. pentax FF isn't going to be groundbreaking to where canikons will switch. I'm just speculating here but how many aps-c users will upgrade to the FF? Maybe half? And I think that's a very optimistic guess. Pentax has some of the best apsc cameras available, an the best MF camera available so why not focus on what they're good at? Maybe work on an affordable MF camera priced the same as canikons FF cameras. A camera like that can be pentaxs offer to the professional photographers instead of another option for a FF.
I think the businesscase for the FF is not to convince Canikon users to switch, but rather to keep existing Pentax users with the brand. MF doesn't do that very well, because it's a niche product only very few can justify spending money. I think there are a lot of people who have called out for a FF body. If Pentax doesn't give them what they want, sooner or later they'll realize that life is short and brand loyalty is a self-made chain.

Also, the FF would probably boost sales of current fullframe glass like the FA limiteds and 100mm WR macro.

I'd be very surprised if half of all the Pentax users anywhere in the world will upgrade to FF. I think it'll be something like 10%. Maybe 20, tops. But that 20% is important, because they're the people that spend more money on gear in the first place, so maybe they generate as much as 50% of the revenue for Pentax. The figures may be off, but I think it's something like that.

QuoteOriginally posted by Another dyemention Quote
its almost 2016. people like spending money on new technology. why not work on something like a stellar mirrorless camera that wirelessly tethers with a tab? something where you can edit your pictures on the spot.
Offer a pro package where you can control your whole system, flashes, camera, editing- all on the tab- on location. Maybe it's just me but I don't see a point in playing follow the leader when you can be the leader. Why play catch up with companies like canikon? And who cares about a pentax ff anyhow? The people on here. Maybe a few thousand people? Seems like a big waste to me.
I have said earlier that maybe Pentax needs to reinvent itself, but honestly I don't see many benefits of wirelessly tethering with a tab. But that's mainly because I don't use tethering at all. Also, the high-quality mirrorless market is pretty saturated nowadays, with Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic, Samsung and Sony. Pentax has the Q instead, which is a different concept.

Last edited by starbase218; 10-08-2015 at 11:51 AM.
10-08-2015, 11:47 AM   #38
New Member




Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 11
QuoteOriginally posted by Another dyemention Quote
And I'm not just saying another mirrorless camera. Im also talking about some kind of app or a tablet that goes along with it for editing. Something decent but basic. Exposure, contrast, tint, sharpness, yada yada. All the basic stuff from say lr5. Something that will bridge that gap and bring better quality images together with the convenience and portability of a tablet.
So, you'd like Ricoh to make an app for the Pentax Q. I like it, it's a nice idea. But why should that stop them making the FF?

10-08-2015, 12:03 PM   #39
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 410
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
I think the businesscase for the FF is not to convince Canikon users to switch, but rather to keep existing Pentax users with the brand. MF doesn't do that very well, because it's a niche product only very few can justify spending money. I think there are a lot of people who have called out for a FF body. If Pentax doesn't give them what they want, sooner or later they'll realize that life is short and brand loyalty is a self-made chain.

Also, the FF would probably boost sales of current fullframe glass like the FA limiteds and 100mm WR macro.

I'd be very surprised if half of all the Pentax users anywhere in the world will upgrade to FF. I think it'll be something like 10%. Maybe 20, tops. But that 20% is important, because they're the people that spend more money on gear in the first place, so maybe they generate as much as 50% of the revenue for Pentax. The figures may be off, but I think it's something like that.



I have said earlier that maybe Pentax needs to reinvent itself, but honestly I don't see many benefits of wirelessly tethering with a tab. But that's mainly because I don't use tethering at all. Also, the high-quality mirrorless market is pretty saturated nowadays, with Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic, Samsung and Sony. Pentax has the Q instead, which is a different concept.
True about the mirrorless market but those cameras are aimed to give dslr owners another option. I was more thinking of in between phone cameras and a dslr/mirrorless.

---------- Post added 10-08-15 at 12:05 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by weinelm Quote
So, you'd like Ricoh to make an app for the Pentax Q. I like it, it's a nice idea. But why should that stop them making the FF?
I didn't mean for them to not make a ff. And as a few have pointed out, the sales from lenses will be substantial enough to make the ff. I just meant instead of focusing on the current camera owners, focus on the ones who don't yet own a camera but will be buying one. Bring in all those new users and then focus on a ff. But I don't own a multi million dollar camera company so I could just be talking out my ass.
10-08-2015, 12:41 PM   #40
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Indiana
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 14,954
I think it is clear that there is more profit per camera made on a full frame model that is decently specified than on a Nikon V2 or a Sony A6000. The whole "middle market" is not a place to make a bunch of profit. Beyond which, as has been mentioned, it is the place where Pentax has position the Q and the Ricoh GR and for that matter, a camera like the K-S1 (which is currently selling in the 200 dollar range).

The reality is that Pentax is small enough that they have to pick their spots. To me, the biggest spot that they have no camera filling is the full frame market. That certainly could be mirrorless or, could be SLR, but for them an SLR makes a lot more sense.
10-08-2015, 12:47 PM   #41
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,424
QuoteOriginally posted by Another dyemention Quote
I didn't mean for them to not make a ff.
You told us clearly what you mean, and what you think about us.
First, the title: "Why is Ricoh even bothering with a FF?". Then, this:
QuoteOriginally posted by Another dyemention Quote
And who cares about a pentax ff anyhow? The people on here. Maybe a few thousand people? Seems like a big waste to me.
10-08-2015, 01:17 PM   #42
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 410
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You told us clearly what you mean, and what you think about us.
First, the title: "Why is Ricoh even bothering with a FF?". Then, this:
Yes, to me it does seen like a waste. I never said it should not be made however. Just that they should focus their resources elsewhere. And asking why are they bothering was a pretty straightforward question that I was wondering the answer to and I believe it was answered. And as far as "what you think about us" I gave no opinions of what I think about current pentax users other than I think it's a small percentage compared to the much larger group of people wanting a entry level camera. But that's hardly an opinion. Assuming that's who you mean by "us".
10-08-2015, 01:51 PM   #43
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,424
The 'us' means everyone here who is waiting for the FF, and those elsewhere, whom you're rudely dismissing as "a waste".

FYI, higher margin products are much more valuable than low or no margin products. Let me put it this way: the 645Z costs about 8000 euro, body only. Assuming the margins (%) are identical, Pentax would have to sell ~30,000 of your less-than-DSLR cameras (estimated at 200 euro - low-end DSLRs are quite cheap, and this must be cheaper) every month to make the same money. But they aren't, they're significantly lower.

Another thing which should be obvious: playing on the larger-and-cheaper market doesn't guarantee you success. Let's take the smartphone market: Sony Mobile is in deep trouble, despite having some very good products (yep, my phone is a Sony). They're losing lots of money.
OTOH, Ricoh Imaging is very happy with the 645Z, which is from about every point of view the opposite of a smartphone's camera.

Last edited by Kunzite; 10-08-2015 at 01:59 PM.
10-08-2015, 02:10 PM - 1 Like   #44
Senior Member




Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Italia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 147
My opinion: FF will be GREAT!!!!!!!

For people non interested in FF: Don't buy it. Don't regret, Our APSC cameras are great, too and they'll continue serving us in the best way.
But please, don't spend so much time rejecting the idea of the FF: give Pentax a try and let us (FF enthusiasts) just be pleased of the opportunity to use 35mm lenses the way they were intended to ( i'm feeling old....).
And yes, I think that (as for Canikons models) developing the new FF would be useful to find improvements of APSC models (read AF) and in the future we'll see a lot of osmosis between the sectors.

people, let's go out and take pictures !!!!
best regards.
Matteo
10-08-2015, 02:14 PM   #45
New Member
Vitzthumb's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 13
I think it's a smart move for Ricoh to produce a full-frame. First it fills a hole in their lineup; this in and of itself is smart. It also allows them to compete for a (probably small subsection) niche market of people who want to enter the photography field but start with a full-frame.

Lastly, I for one am excited to have a clear upgrade path now. As it stood, I was considering moving to either the 645Z (in the distant future) or another full-frame as my next upgrade. I wager a great deal of users on this site can echo that sentiment--and if for nothing else, I think we're all happy that it finally exists.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, camera, cameras, canikons, car, care, dslr, fashion, ff, full-frame, game, image, iq, issue, leader, lenses, mf, mirrorless, nikon, offer, pentax, people, pixel, ricoh, shift, sony, tab
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Give it a try...? Why bother? AbadPhotography General Photography 123 11-26-2014 03:50 PM
K-30...Bother with the Kit lens at all? fantasysage Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 23 09-12-2012 05:19 PM
FF even with MF lens LightMeter Pentax K-r 7 11-19-2011 10:34 PM
What's with the FF Postings - Why ? wll Pentax News and Rumors 249 05-14-2009 07:59 AM
Why the Obsession with Full Frame (FF) DSLRs fwbigd Pentax DSLR Discussion 31 02-05-2008 08:27 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:19 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top