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10-10-2015, 08:24 AM   #31
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I was shooting a wedding with an A7II and the Sony/Zeiss 55mm and caught some flack from the brides mother because she saw a little camera and thought I should be using the "big professional" stuff for what I was charging. I just laughed and told her not to worry. She apologized after she got a copy of the album. I also know a couple of professionals who started as assistants and so they used what their mentors used. They know nothing about any other brand of camera. One of them asked me if my K-5 was a film camera. They don't know anything about the gear and for the most part they don't need to know.

10-10-2015, 08:31 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I was shooting a wedding with an A7II and the Sony/Zeiss 55mm and caught some flack from the brides mother because she saw a little camera and thought I should be using the "big professional" stuff for what I was charging. I just laughed and told her not to worry. She apologized after she got a copy of the album. I also know a couple of professionals who started as assistants and so they used what their mentors used. They know nothing about any other brand of camera. One of them asked me if my K-5 was a film camera. They don't know anything about the gear and for the most part they don't need to know.
And that's the thing, a professional photographer is the guy who knows how to get what he needs out of what he has. There's no money to be made in knowing everything about cameras. But there is knowing everything about your camera.
10-10-2015, 08:36 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
The difference between ignorance and stupidity is larger than you think, and in the end it all boils down to the fact that the stupid don't know any better, but at least they can be taught. The ignorant know better, deep in their defective reasoning is the knowledge that they are wrong, but they ignore it and do things their way anyhow. For this very reason there is little to be gained in trying to enlighten a bigot, the more light you shine in, the tighter they squeeze their eyes shut.
That's interesting - it's the reverse of the definitions I've always understood: "ignorant" as merely uneducated or uninformed, and "stupid" as dull-witted in a very negative way - willingly (evenly proudly) so. I'd never considered a connection to "ignore" and actively being uninformed.

In the southeastern United States (at least the part I grew up in), "ignorant" is generally considered a worse insult than "stupid", and it's clearly meant as low intelligence, not low education. I always thought it was rather ignorant to use "ignorant" that way.

Sorry for the diversion...
10-10-2015, 08:45 AM   #34
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The bases word in ignorant is.. 'ignore". In at least one part of it's definition, willful denial is an aspect. AN example would be polluting rivers. Everyone knows it's wrong, but some people will say it's ok because it doesn't really harm anything and makes them money. IN a case like that it's actually intentional ignorance, where as stupid is what it is. Although there were times my mother accused me of being intentionally stupid as well. I have no comment on whether or not she was right.

10-10-2015, 09:05 AM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The bases word in ignorant is.. 'ignore". In at least one part of it's definition, willful denial is an aspect. AN example would be polluting rivers. Everyone knows it's wrong, but some people will say it's ok because it doesn't really harm anything and makes them money. IN a case like that it's actually intentional ignorance, where as stupid is what it is. Although there were times my mother accused me of being intentionally stupid as well. I have no comment on whether or not she was right.
They both clearly come from the same Latin "unknown, not knowing" origin, but while the verb always means actively not knowing, the definitions of the adjective (that I have seen) are always passive, a lack knowledge or information. I've often seen (or read) someone say they were ignorant of a fact - it never occurred to me that they were saying they were aware of it but ignoring it. It changes a lot of press conferences...

Edit: This may be an English vs Americanese vs Suthern thing - The UK English dictionaries that I have checked seem to have more emphasis on the "rude, uncouth" definition than US English dictionaries. I'll have to write to World Wide Words!

Last edited by THoog; 10-10-2015 at 08:46 PM.
10-10-2015, 09:40 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
That's interesting - it's the reverse of the definitions I've always understood: "ignorant" as merely uneducated or uninformed, and "stupid" as dull-witted in a very negative way - willingly (evenly proudly) so. I'd never considered a connection to "ignore" and actively being uninformed.
Your understanding of the word is correct. Digitalis appears to be ignorant of the correct meaning of the words.

An ignorant person is unaware or uneducated in regard to the subject. Ignorance has nothing to do with actual mental capacity or the ability to learn where as "stupid" implies that a person lacks the capacity to learn. Stupid people are typically ignorant, but an ignorant person is not necessarily stupid.
10-10-2015, 06:39 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The bases word in ignorant is.. 'ignore". In at least one part of it's definition, willful denial is an aspect.
that is exactly what I'm getting at, willful ignorance, which has caused more harm to humanity than stupidity ever has.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Your understanding of the word is correct. Digitalis appears to be ignorant of the correct meaning of the words.
It is all fair and well to adhere to clinical definitions, the meanings of words of which I'm well aware. The reality of the matter here is: we have someone making claims that if she had any real knowledge or experience she otherwise wouldn't be making. The claim that APS-C cameras are incapable of operating under rainy, inclement weather and have images polluted with noise, and are also unable to produce tack-sharp images - whether she is stupid or willfully ignorant, one thing is certain: there isn't any empirically derived data that objectively supports any of her conclusions.

"Stupidity may be more accurately viewed not the opposite of intelligence but as a kind of flawed or an absence of intelligence, the darkness that makes the light of true intelligence visible. Contrasted with ignorance, which is the lack of knowledge, not the lack of intelligence" - Albert Einstein

Last edited by Digitalis; 10-10-2015 at 07:04 PM.
10-10-2015, 07:16 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Such as?

We all show bias.. even I have (in this very thread).. it is a part of being human it seems.
Brick wall; lens testing…

People's senses of humour seem to have taken a holiday in this thread.

I wonder if the subject of this thread is suffering from barrel distortion.

10-10-2015, 11:32 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Murfy Quote
it is hard to tell tone
Did you notice jawsy's location?
Australian humour and US humour (humor?) are often two different things.
10-11-2015, 12:44 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by rod_grant Quote
Australian humour and US humour (humor?) are often two different things.
Sometimes it seems like we are speaking a separate language, for instance:

Americans call them flip flops, Aussies call them thongs - this can cause confusion as a thong is a very different thing to Americans.
10-11-2015, 10:13 AM   #41
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England and America are two countries separated by a common language. By George Bernard Shaw.

Wouldn’t this be even truer for Australia and America?

DAZ
10-11-2015, 10:46 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by rod_grant Quote
Did you notice jawsy's location?
Australian humour and US humour (humor?) are often two different things.
I read it a few times and wasn't sure, but all honesty I did have someone say basically that conversation in all seriousness to me on Facebook. It was eerily the same conversation, so assumed I was facing the same thinking. I thought they were joking, but no, they were not.
10-11-2015, 11:06 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bruce Clark Quote
Similar to the 'back-handed' compliments I occasionally (very occasionally) receive from well meaning friends and relatives. "That's a nice photo. You must have a good camera"
I have a recurring fantasy in which* I have immediately at hand the camera and lens that produced the complimented image - and I simply hand it to the commenter.








* 1. I am skillful enough to produce print-worthy images with regularity
10-11-2015, 11:17 AM - 2 Likes   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
"Stupidity may be more accurately viewed not the opposite of intelligence but as a kind of flawed or an absence of intelligence, the darkness that makes the light of true intelligence visible. Contrasted with ignorance, which is the lack of knowledge, not the lack of intelligence" - Albert Einstein
“We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.”― Benjamin Franklin
10-11-2015, 12:31 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
People's senses of humour seem to have taken a holiday in this thread.
Thanks.
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