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10-23-2015, 08:40 AM   #1
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Note to Pentax on FF

One of the things that is going to limit the sales of the Pentax FF is going to be available 3rd party lenses. One of the things that makes it very popular will be compatible with millions of K mount lenses.

Why not do something radical for the FF and offer it in different mounts. I am sure the sensor will be wonderful, as they are in the K3 and the 645Z and 645D. This would solve some problems and actually make it possible for others who have invested heavily in their existing Canon/Nikon and other systems to use the FF.

I realize there are technical reasons that make this difficult, and even licensing ones, but getting others to even "try" it out will be hard when they have thousands invested in their legacy system of choice. Adapters notwithstanding.

10-23-2015, 08:57 AM   #2
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So they wont earn any money at all on lens sales?
10-23-2015, 09:06 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
One of the things that is going to limit the sales of the Pentax FF is going to be available 3rd party lenses. One of the things that makes it very popular will be compatible with millions of K mount lenses.

Why not do something radical for the FF and offer it in different mounts. I am sure the sensor will be wonderful, as they are in the K3 and the 645Z and 645D. This would solve some problems and actually make it possible for others who have invested heavily in their existing Canon/Nikon and other systems to use the FF.

I realize there are technical reasons that make this difficult, and even licensing ones, but getting others to even "try" it out will be hard when they have thousands invested in their legacy system of choice. Adapters notwithstanding.
LOL. Yea, just change mounts. I'm sure every system has the same registration distance. Every lens every should work flawlessly -- right?
10-23-2015, 09:31 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
One of the things that is going to limit the sales of the Pentax FF is going to be available 3rd party lenses. One of the things that makes it very popular will be compatible with millions of K mount lenses.

Why not do something radical for the FF and offer it in different mounts. I am sure the sensor will be wonderful, as they are in the K3 and the 645Z and 645D. This would solve some problems and actually make it possible for others who have invested heavily in their existing Canon/Nikon and other systems to use the FF.

I realize there are technical reasons that make this difficult, and even licensing ones, but getting others to even "try" it out will be hard when they have thousands invested in their legacy system of choice. Adapters notwithstanding.
TBH, do you really think that for Canikon users buying Pentax DSLR without k-mount lenses as a good business model for Ricoh/Pentax? You forgot that this will be a k-mount (with inherent mount registered distance from the film days) camera, not a new mount (unlike Sony E-mount for mirror-less).

10-23-2015, 09:33 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
Why not do something radical for the FF and offer it in different mounts.
An easier 'radical' step would be to make a deal with Tamron and Sigma to subsidise the production of their lenses in K-mount, maybe for a year or two or longer.

Terms would be like: release your best lenses in K-mount pls, and for every K-mount lens shipped we'll pay you a 15% bonus, based on the lens production price. The 15% would offset the extra costs of producing for K-mount, and offset some of the commercial risk associated with manufacturing for a smaller audience than Nikon or Canon.

Eg tell Sigma: in 2016 ship 2000 150-600 C's in K-mount at a production price of $1000 each, and we'll send you a cheque for 2000*150=$300k at the end of the year.

It would be paying competitors, but Pentax has close business relationships with most lens makers already - esp Tamron and Tokina.
10-23-2015, 09:38 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
So they wont earn any money at all on lens sales?
If you want to get others to move from one system to another this is one way to do it. I would say most of those sales would be incremental FF camera body sales, not "lost" lens sales. How many people who use Nikon/Canon/Sony are going to replace all their glass to move to Pentax?

This type of move happens moving from FF to Medium format, but not sideways.

---------- Post added 10-23-15 at 12:40 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by enoeske Quote
LOL. Yea, just change mounts. I'm sure every system has the same registration distance. Every lens every should work flawlessly -- right?
I realize this will not be easy, but there is an opportunity. That was my only point.
10-23-2015, 11:05 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
If you want to get others to move from one system to another this is one way to do it. I would say most of those sales would be incremental FF camera body sales, not "lost" lens sales. How many people who use Nikon/Canon/Sony are going to replace all their glass to move to Pentax?

This type of move happens moving from FF to Medium format, but not sideways.[COLOR="Silver"]
They make most money on a system basis, not a camera unit one. What do they win by users not buying into a system then? The only thing that would make sense then is to kill the K-mount to join a bigger market shares´.

---------- Post added 10-23-15 at 08:07 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
I realize this will not be easy, but there is an opportunity. That was my only point.
It isnt just hard, it is insanely hard! You need to hack every camera systems interface, both electronically and mechanically, and get it to work with yours. Also you need to make each mount perfectly alignet with changed and that drives up cost astronomically.
10-23-2015, 11:10 AM   #8
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Yeah, I don't think its a good idea for Pentax to make a Nikon camera. What comes next, making lenses in those mounts? Pentax needs stability, which includes K-mount cameras and K-mount lenses. Pentax needs to concentrate on these before trying to but into other brand's userbase.

People will come to Pentax if Pentax makes some good stuff, and also spends some money on advertising

10-23-2015, 11:36 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Yeah, I don't think its a good idea for Pentax to make a Nikon camera. What comes next, making lenses in those mounts? Pentax needs stability, which includes K-mount cameras and K-mount lenses. Pentax needs to concentrate on these before trying to but into other brand's userbase.

People will come to Pentax if Pentax makes some good stuff, and also spends some money on advertising
I was not suggesting Pentax stops making lenses. That would be crazy. Most of the investment anyone makes in a camera system is actually in the lenses. Companies like Zeiss now make lenses for Canon, Nikon, Sony. Sigma is starting to understand this issue and now offer mount changes for this specific reason, there is much loyalty with lenses as there are with sensors/bodies. Maintaining two sets of lenses is not viable for most people, it's too expensive. Anyway, was not trying to cause trouble. As someone who has used Pentax for 40 plus years, I just see an opportunity here. Sony is gaining much market share specifically because their mirrorless cameras can use just about any lens.

It's going to take time for Pentax to bring lenses out for the FF, that is to really take advantage of what will probably be a great sensor.
10-23-2015, 11:52 AM   #10
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Easy for Sony because of the registration distance. Were Pentax to release a mirrorless mount i would agree with you.
But not from k-mount. Too many hurdles and no upside. Remember Pentax does make their own lenses and want to sell those.
10-23-2015, 11:55 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Easy for Sony because of the registration distance. Were Pentax to release a mirrorless mount i would agree with you.
But not from k-mount. Too many hurdles and no upside. Remember Pentax does make their own lenses and want to sell those.
Yup. Probably enough said.
10-23-2015, 12:05 PM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
It would be paying competitors,
The third-party lens makers are sort of competitors and sort of not. Yes, if Tamron or Sigma or whoever put out a lens in a given mount, they are always hoping the customer will buy it instead of the OEM product, but OTOH they are (generally) not competing on a system basis* and are trying to attract business away from ALL the OEMs. That being said, there are collaborations and there are collaborations - it's the difference between Tamron and Sigma releasing lenses in K mount and the outright tweaking-rebranding we've seen with the new 24-70 (speaking of which, someone who has access to images from both should run the LR/PS distortion-correction profiles for the Tammy version on images taken with the Pentax and see what happens).


* Sigma do have their own cameras IIRC, but if anything they seem like even more of a niche market than Pentax.
10-23-2015, 12:50 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
An easier 'radical' step would be to make a deal with Tamron and Sigma to subsidise the production of their lenses in K-mount, maybe for a year or two or longer.
Why would they do that? Is it even legal?
Even if it were, it means diverting much needed funds in order to decrease their own sales, and increase the 3rd-party makers'.
10-23-2015, 01:18 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Why would they do that?
It's just a counter-proposal to the idea of making a Nikon or Canon mount Pentax.

But it could work. Sigma and Tamron are just sub-contracted lens suppliers in such a deal. Nothing really radical in such arrangements. They could strike similar deals with flash makers, other third-party peripheral makers to boost the Pentax eco-system.
10-23-2015, 01:34 PM   #15
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Tamron seems to be already "tied up", with supplying componentry (or maybe the full assembly) for Pentax branded lenses. Sigma will probably continue (and hopefully expand) their K-mount versions. Heaven knows what Tokina will do.

The major issue (except for Canon lenses) isn't so much registration distance as AE and AF function transfer.

Regardless of our thoughts on what Ricoh might do with the 35FF, I imagine Multi-mount sales are going to get a boost.
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