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11-01-2015, 12:33 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Australia officially adopted the Metric system of measurement in 1971
Only some of Australia adopted the system in 1971: We moved to Wangaratta in 1980, my wife took our (carefully calculated and noted) kitchen plans to the cabinet maker, who promptly converted them all back to feet and inches, so he could build the units! He hadn't adopted anything!

11-01-2015, 12:37 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by rod_grant Quote
Only some of Australia adopted the system in 1971: We moved to Wangaratta in 1980, my wife took our (carefully calculated and noted) kitchen plans to the cabinet maker, who promptly converted them all back to feet and inches, so he could build the units! He hadn't adopted anything!
He must be related to that Pommy shopkeeper I was reading about the other day, who still insists on using lbs and ozs, and won't take Euros for payment. Come to think about it, they were in the Sticks, too...
11-01-2015, 12:47 AM   #93
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Back to the OP's question...I think the Grid, is what Jeff Bridges was in for...

11-01-2015, 04:01 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
As a computer professional, my first comment is to say that you really should write the year as four digits - we learned that sixteen years ago.
Actually, please all use five digits. Or otherwise, everybody of us will be in deep trouble just 7985 years from now
QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
If you really wanted to have a "perfectly logical" date system, you would go with the East Asian/ISO 8601 system of Year/Month/Day. No one groups dates first by day, then by month, then by year. That would be the most illogical system of all.
Sounds correct, but isn't.

Many things are ordered from least to most specific (like you suggest), others however are organized from most to least.

Examples of most to least include spoken date (in German, as in 31.Oktober 2015), address (name first, city last, or country), email (most@least.evenless), domain names (host.domain.tld) which often leads to illogical combinations as an URL (domain/path) because path is ordered from least to most specific.

Ultimatively, it cannot be fixed. Because least to most specific has an inherent advantage: the bit of information carrying the most of information comes first (e.g., a name is more valuable information than country). And this is an essential property of any good language, to get information across efficiently.

So, while "least to most" sorts better, "most to least" is more efficient. And the confusion when combining both, in general cannot be avoided.

Therefore, I do NOT have any issue with the US style of MM/DD/YY. That's just fine and an example of above combination.

However, I DO take offense that both conventions are written using the same notation, like MM-DD-YY vs. DD-MM-YY (as is configurable in pentaxforums.com preference pane). Because then, nobody knows what 10/12/14 does actually mean. A solution could be MM/DD/YY vs. DD.MM.YY vs. YY-MM-DD. I fear however, won't happen too.

11-01-2015, 04:28 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Whenever a file needs a date to rank it (for instance, versions of the same spreadsheet with date-determined data) I use yyyymmdd, as in filename20151031.

But numbers and file names are not language - at least not the spoken language in which we communicate. Americans for the most part communicate with Americans, regardless of global business or diplomatic communication. Consequently Americans will use the number system they want to use. And we're pretty stubborn about letting someone else tell us their way is better than ours - in fact that's a sure way to preclude broad adoption of the metric system. Just keep telling us your way is better than ours.

If you want to absolutely, positively and permanently prevent a change here, tell us we are demonstrably too stupid to make the correct decision, that is in our best interest, and since you are clearly smarter, more logical and rational than we are, you (and your minions) will just make the decision that is in our best interest on our behalf. I mean, after all, we'll eventually get accustomed to it, right?

Come to think of it - someone tried that line of reasoning in the 70's. All the highway signs had MPH and KPH in smaller letters or distance in miles, then in kilometers. Didn't work out very well, did it.
I use yyyymmdd_filename in all my photos, no matter if it's "needed" or not.
11-01-2015, 06:28 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Alas for the efforts of creating Esperanto, a language relentlessly logical in its grammar and 100% phonetic in its spelling. One and only one verb declination applied to any action word, no male/female nouns, one way to make all plurals, etc. etc. But it's been around for how long? More than half a century and who uses it for anything except an academic "consider this." Only the most deeply devoted think it's going anywhere, for most it's little more than trivia question: What is the only designed language?
The only? I'll just leave this here.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Actually, please all use five digits. Or otherwise, everybody of us will be in deep trouble just 7985 years from now
I'll just keep using the excelent 1900-based numbering system as handed down to me by various not really Y2K-compliant software. It's currently year 19115, in 885 years it will be year 191000, and in 7985 years it will be year 198100. No problems!
11-01-2015, 09:49 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by drougge Quote
The only? I'll just leave this here.
I stand corrected and delightfully more informed. Note that constructed languages, or at least consideration of constructing one, go back millennia, and Esperanto is far older than I thought (over 130 years). A universal second language for communication is perhaps obtainable, but getting everyone to adopt the same language is not even faintly reasonable. Too much history and culture is linked to language. I can read Beowulf in modern English translation, but those who can read the original will tell me that the power of the work is lost. I took a course in Greek tragic drama taught by a visiting professor from Greece. Almost every lecture he'd rant for a bit about how much we were missing by not reading the original Greek, likening it to reading a Classic Illustrated version of a Victor Hugo novel.

Last edited by WPRESTO; 11-01-2015 at 09:56 AM.
11-01-2015, 01:52 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
However, I DO take offense that both conventions are written using the same notation, like MM-DD-YY vs. DD-MM-YY (as is configurable in pentaxforums.com preference pane). Because then, nobody knows what 10/12/14 does actually mean. A solution could be MM/DD/YY vs. DD.MM.YY vs. YY-MM-DD.
And this is the part that needs emphasis. Despite talk of which representation is more logical, the issue is one of confusion. It is sometimes simply impossible to know which date a given set of digits represents. falconeye's suggestion of using different separator characters would work very well.

As far as addresses being ordered in most specific first: I'll bet that when a letter arrives at the post office, the first item looked at is the last line, hence it would actually make sense to address mail in least to most specific.

---------- Post added 01-11-15 at 20:59 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nakedgun Quote
God, help US from becoming Europe (what a mess!)*

*this not necessarily related to any form of measurement.
Talk about distorted perspective. I wonder if the user name has some significance here.

My first boriscleto™..


Last edited by bxf; 11-01-2015 at 10:48 PM.
11-01-2015, 02:18 PM - 1 Like   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by mythguy9 Quote
Back to the OP's question...I think the Grid, is what Jeff Bridges was in for...
Stubbornly trying to keep this on topic, aren't you?
11-02-2015, 02:01 AM   #100
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I vote for Welsh as a universal second language. Words are pronounced as they are written: there is none of this "bough", "cough", "enough" nonsense. There is no "K", because "C" is always hard. There is no "X" either, because "CS" does that job. And while we have no "J" or "Z", we do have "CH", "LL", and "SI" as extra letters. Oh... and "F" is "V", so we have "FF" to make the "F" sound. And I should mention that "W" and "Y" are vowels, which causes some people to think that Welsh words don't have vowels. All perfectly logical. So as long as you know how to pronounce the letters, you can pronounce the whole word. Trouble is, if one isn't Welsh. one probably doesn't know how to form the letters. I'll get my coat now...
11-02-2015, 02:06 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
I vote for Welsh as a universal second language. Words are pronounced as they are written: there is none of this "bough", "cough", "enough" nonsense. There is no "K", because "C" is always hard. There is no "X" either, because "CS" does that job. And while we have no "J" or "Z", we do have "CH", "LL", and "SI" as extra letters. Oh... and "F" is "V", so we have "FF" to make the "F" sound. And I should mention that "W" and "Y" are vowels, which causes some people to think that Welsh words don't have vowels. All perfectly logical. So as long as you know how to pronounce the letters, you can pronounce the whole word. Trouble is, if one isn't Welsh. one probably doesn't know how to form the letters. I'll get my coat now...
Dadd wwd be cwl!
11-03-2015, 05:13 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
I stand corrected and delightfully more informed. Note that constructed languages, or at least consideration of constructing one, go back millennia, and Esperanto is far older than I thought (over 130 years). A universal second language for communication is perhaps obtainable, but getting everyone to adopt the same language is not even faintly reasonable. Too much history and culture is linked to language. I can read Beowulf in modern English translation, but those who can read the original will tell me that the power of the work is lost. I took a course in Greek tragic drama taught by a visiting professor from Greece. Almost every lecture he'd rant for a bit about how much we were missing by not reading the original Greek, likening it to reading a Classic Illustrated version of a Victor Hugo novel.
Perhaps the trouble with translations lies more with the translators than the language into which they are translating it to. The English language for all it's quirks and faults still contains more words, thus the ability to accurately describe an author's intent. However if the translator is merely converting the work to make it readable, he/she may not be interested in also translating the author's original feelings. After all, look at one of the most translated pieces of writing around, the Bible. Reading translations made from the original papyrus scrolls (not versions made from other translations such as those made from the King James versions) shows how different translations can be. I believe if you have a translator who is intimately familiar with the original work, they should be able to bring most if perhaps not all, of the original author's idea to life. One problem remains though: two people can read the same original and walk away with two entirely different beliefs in what the author was trying to say. So thus, without the author being available to verify the validity of the translation, you will always have people who claim the translation misses the mark of the original work.
11-03-2015, 06:50 AM   #103
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Furthering your comments on translation. Words and phrases may have cultural contexts that have meaning to native speakers but are difficult for someone learning the tongue as a second language to grasp. Compounding the problem, words and phrases can change meaning over time as language, culture, and usage evolve. Reading meaning into literature can be a trap. Robert Frost's famous poem about "two roads that diverged in a yellow wood" is often taken as a metaphor for life choices, especially selecting a challenge for no other reason than it is more difficult. But Frost once said he had no such idea when he wrote the poem. He was just describing going into a wood, walking down a path that was less used, and being pleased with himself for doing so. However, for the English teacher presenting the poem to youngsters, that's immaterial. The metaphor is there whether the author intended or not.
11-03-2015, 06:58 AM   #104
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To the OP: now see what you've done?
11-03-2015, 08:38 AM   #105
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Date format think of it like this:


---------- Post added 03-11-15 at 08:40 ----------

Translations English to English...
Trousers - Pants
Pants - Underwear
Chips - Fries
Crisps - Chips

---------- Post added 03-11-15 at 08:42 ----------

Metric is better than Imperial for it's simplicity... but I do use Imperial for some things:

Imperial:
Lumber
Person's Height
Person's Weight

Metric:
Most other things...

Last edited by bertwert; 11-03-2015 at 09:59 AM.
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