New Pentax Full Frame Gets 36MP Sensor?

Fenwoodian · 10-26-2015, 08:13 PM

Wow, a $1,900 street price would be great!

I also shoot Nikon. Did a little checking around tonight and found that good used Nikon D800's and D800E's seem to be going for $1,700 - $1,900 these days.

Normhead said above - "I'm expecting the Pentax FF to be a more advanced camera than the D810".

It's had to imagine a camera that's better than the Nikon's D810 flagship selling for the price of a used Nikon camera that's a model older than the D810. Now that would be a world class bargain!

If that happens I'd expect lots of Nikon shooters coming over to Pentax land...

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 10-26-2015 at 08:25 PM.

quant2325 · 10-26-2015, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by Fenwoodian

Wow, a $1,900 street price would be great!

I also shoot Nikon. Did a little checking around tonight and found that good used Nikon D800's and D800E's seem to be going for $1,700 - $1,900 these days.

Normhead said above - "I'm expecting the Pentax FF to be a more advanced camera than the D810".

It's had to imagine a camera that's better than the D810 selling for the price of a used camera that's a model older than the D810. That would be a world class bargain!

The Pentax pricing model seems to be "Give more for the money." Pentax is also more innovative than Nikon or Canon. Therefore, expect the sub-$2,000 street price with better product and landscape IQ with the pixel shift than Canikon (as if anyone needs it). The 645Z will continue as the "Pro" model, the FF is for either pros or amateurs with money to burn, and the K-3 and successors will be for serious amateurs until the smartphones take over the world. I might find an excuse to buy the FF at $1,900 US. If not, used K-3 cameras will be selling in the $400-$500 range.

rawr · 10-26-2015, 08:30 PM - **1 Like**

Cheap body, but expensive new lenses.

There will be no free lunch.

virusn3t · 10-26-2015, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Cheap body, but expensive new lenses.

There will be no free lunch.

Good lenses; old, current or to be released arent cheap anyway...

Last edited by virusn3t; 10-26-2015 at 08:41 PM.

Sandy Hancock · 10-26-2015, 08:37 PM

I have been saying since the get-go that I would be perfectly fine with 24 Mp and would accept 36. Any more would be a negative.
If you want huge files with oodles of latitude you really want medium format. Full frame 36x24 is about speed and convenience AFAIAC.
If it really is only $2400 it should sell *very* well.

**jatrax** · 10-26-2015, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Fenwoodian

The D810 has one CF card slot, and one SD card slot. I have over 200GB of fast SD cards, and no longer have any of those larger CF cards. Buying CF cards again would be a huge expense for me.

Nikon kept the CF card slot for backward compatibility with their older cameras. Pentax has always been SD so I don't believe they will suddenly add a CF slot.

Originally posted by MadMathMind

Unless you're going to print out billboards, anything over 25 MP or so is just overkill. Then you're just spending lots and lots of harddrive space for not much gain.

Not sure about that myself, "everyone" used to say 12MP was 'overkill' and now the standard for APS-C is 24MP. Lots of reasons to have more pixels, cropping for one. You are correct there is a point where it does not matter, and likely 24 is that point for a lot of people. But not all. I'm looking forward to 36 or 42MP. I cannot imagine Pentax would go any lower than 36MP in this camera, and I still think the 42Mp sensor is likely.

quant2325 · 10-26-2015, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

I have been saying since the get-go that I would be perfectly fine with 24 Mp and would accept 36. Any more would be a negative.
If you want huge files with oodles of latitude you really want medium format. Full frame 36x24 is about speed and convenience AFAIAC.
If it really is only $2400 it should sell *very* well.

I don't know if it is about speed for sports...the fps will be less than an APS-C. Regardless, it's a FF.

Adam · 10-26-2015, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Adam has been saying $2,500 max for six months. My bet was $2,800 and Rondec has been right around that. Tex apparently had an extensive conversation with someeone who should know and who he cannot identify because there was a reporter present, so disussion was 'off-the-record". $1,900 street is a damned sharp pricepoint for what that camera appears to be - prricinglike the 645Z in that market. At that price I can keep all my crazy SMC lenses, get the camera and the 70-210, keep the FA24-90 and be VERY happy.

I think that was purely speculation, but after seeing the recent photos of the camera I'd still expect it to be in that range ($2500-2900). It looks like a more serious body than the Nikon D750, so having it cost more than it but less than the D800 series would make sense if Ricoh wants to remain competitive in the US market.

DogLover · 10-26-2015, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Cheap body, but expensive new lenses.

There will be no free lunch.

I actually think this supports the lower-priced body theories. The 645D and Z made waves with their low price points. Ricoh would have to be brain-dead not to realize what worked before has a good shot to work again, and Ricoh ain't Hoya. They may be hoping to make up some of the margins on the new lenses.

I certainly hope this is indeed their plan because I have little interest in the new lenses, at least not anytime soon. I already have the Sigma 24-70 and, along with my ZK's, I wouldn't feel any burning need for lenses for a while. I might want the 70-200 someday, though.

biz-engineer · 10-26-2015, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by normhead

That would be awesome. We'll have to see.

Norm, you don't need that FF camera, do you ?

**Rondec** · 10-27-2015, 02:45 AM

Early rumors were for 42 megapixel sensor, while current rumors are for the 36 megapixel sensor. From what I can see, the 36 megapixel sensor is better at low iso while the 42 megapixel sensor is better at high iso and video. 36 probably fits better with my style of shooting, but I could work fine with either.

If the price point really is 2400 dollars, then it is certainly the 36 megapixel sensor we are looking at. But no one knows the real price of coming full frame. I doubt Ricoh has made a final decision on it so that number feels like pure speculation.

Kunzite · 10-27-2015, 04:03 AM

Don't expect the prices to fall quickly. Knowing Ricoh Imaging/Pentax, they would likely play it safe and underestimate the demand. Again.

biz-engineer · 10-27-2015, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

Adam has been saying $2,500 max for six months. My bet was $2,800 and Rondec has been right around that. Tex apparently had an extensive conversation with someeone who should know and who he cannot identify because there was a reporter present, so disussion was 'off-the-record". $1,900 street is a damned sharp pricepoint for what that camera appears to be - prricinglike the 645Z in that market. At that price I can keep all my crazy SMC lenses, get the camera and the 70-210, keep the FA24-90 and be VERY happy.

The price of the new Pentax FF may start at $4000 in order to slow down the demand and smooth revenue, as Ricoh production line may not produce as much as volumes would be order if the price wqs low at the start.

8stripe · 10-27-2015, 06:05 AM

For whatever it is worth, when I questioned the Ricoh Rep at the NY show last Thursday, he said that the FF senor is 36mp and 42mp with Pixel Shift enabled. However, I did not ask him if the senor is the same as the Nikon D800.

normhead · 10-27-2015, 06:09 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Norm, you don't need that FF camera, do you ?

I don't, and honestly, when it comes purchase time this tax season, I'll finally have to make a decision... DFA 150-450 or FF. I can make a case for both, and I go back and forth, day after day. I personally am not convinced there's a lot of difference between a K-3 and a D810 in terms of meaningful out put. The threads on the IR fabrics really pop on a D810, but, you stand back 6 feet and you can't see them anyway. And an FF would require an expensive new wide angle, when I already have the Sigma 8-16 for APS-c. SO while I'm excited about the release, I'm a long way from deciding to purchase. Another part of that, is I haven't been out to an Art Show for over a year. Logistical problems. My local Zellers has beautiful framed canvases for 70 bucks, I used to get $300 for mine, that's less than I can buy the frames for, and if I never do another 30x20 in my life, there is no possibility I'll see any benefit from a full frame, printing at 18x12 or whatever.

SO, I'm not sure what the circumstances would be that would inspire me to buy a full frame, but I'm really happy there's going to be one available. It's kind of like a security blanket. For my wildlife shooting or macro, it's definitely a no go. If it's 3k, it will still be a toss up, used 645D or Pentax FF for landscape. I have some 645 A glass.

10-26-2015, 08:28 PM	#17
quant2325 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 205	Originally posted by Fenwoodian Wow, a $1,900 street price would be great! I also shoot Nikon. Did a little checking around tonight and found that good used Nikon D800's and D800E's seem to be going for $1,700 - $1,900 these days. Normhead said above - "I'm expecting the Pentax FF to be a more advanced camera than the D810". It's had to imagine a camera that's better than the D810 selling for the price of a used camera that's a model older than the D810. That would be a world class bargain! The Pentax pricing model seems to be "Give more for the money." Pentax is also more innovative than Nikon or Canon. Therefore, expect the sub-$2,000 street price with better product and landscape IQ with the pixel shift than Canikon (as if anyone needs it). The 645Z will continue as the "Pro" model, the FF is for either pros or amateurs with money to burn, and the K-3 and successors will be for serious amateurs until the smartphones take over the world. I might find an excuse to buy the FF at $1,900 US. If not, used K-3 cameras will be selling in the $400-$500 range. Last edited by quant2325; 10-26-2015 at 08:35 PM.

10-26-2015, 09:08 PM	#23
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Originally posted by monochrome Adam has been saying $2,500 max for six months. My bet was $2,800 and Rondec has been right around that. Tex apparently had an extensive conversation with someeone who should know and who he cannot identify because there was a reporter present, so disussion was 'off-the-record". $1,900 street is a damned sharp pricepoint for what that camera appears to be - prricinglike the 645Z in that market. At that price I can keep all my crazy SMC lenses, get the camera and the 70-210, keep the FA24-90 and be VERY happy. I think that was purely speculation, but after seeing the recent photos of the camera I'd still expect it to be in that range ($2500-2900). It looks like a more serious body than the Nikon D750, so having it cost more than it but less than the D800 series would make sense if Ricoh wants to remain competitive in the US market. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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10-26-2015, 08:13 PM	#16
Fenwoodian Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,874 Original Poster	Wow, a $1,900 street price would be great! I also shoot Nikon. Did a little checking around tonight and found that good used Nikon D800's and D800E's seem to be going for $1,700 - $1,900 these days. Normhead said above - "I'm expecting the Pentax FF to be a more advanced camera than the D810". It's had to imagine a camera that's better than the Nikon's D810 flagship selling for the price of a used Nikon camera that's a model older than the D810. Now that would be a world class bargain! If that happens I'd expect lots of Nikon shooters coming over to Pentax land... Last edited by Fenwoodian; 10-26-2015 at 08:25 PM.

10-26-2015, 08:30 PM - 1 Like	#18
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Cheap body, but expensive new lenses. There will be no free lunch.

10-26-2015, 08:32 PM	#19
virusn3t Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 676	Originally posted by rawr Cheap body, but expensive new lenses. There will be no free lunch. Good lenses; old, current or to be released arent cheap anyway... Last edited by virusn3t; 10-26-2015 at 08:41 PM.

10-26-2015, 08:37 PM	#20
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	I have been saying since the get-go that I would be perfectly fine with 24 Mp and would accept 36. Any more would be a negative. If you want huge files with oodles of latitude you really want medium format. Full frame 36x24 is about speed and convenience AFAIAC. If it really is only $2400 it should sell very well.

10-26-2015, 08:39 PM	#21
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Fenwoodian The D810 has one CF card slot, and one SD card slot. I have over 200GB of fast SD cards, and no longer have any of those larger CF cards. Buying CF cards again would be a huge expense for me. Nikon kept the CF card slot for backward compatibility with their older cameras. Pentax has always been SD so I don't believe they will suddenly add a CF slot. Originally posted by MadMathMind Unless you're going to print out billboards, anything over 25 MP or so is just overkill. Then you're just spending lots and lots of harddrive space for not much gain. Not sure about that myself, "everyone" used to say 12MP was 'overkill' and now the standard for APS-C is 24MP. Lots of reasons to have more pixels, cropping for one. You are correct there is a point where it does not matter, and likely 24 is that point for a lot of people. But not all. I'm looking forward to 36 or 42MP. I cannot imagine Pentax would go any lower than 36MP in this camera, and I still think the 42Mp sensor is likely.

10-26-2015, 08:45 PM	#22
quant2325 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 205	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock I have been saying since the get-go that I would be perfectly fine with 24 Mp and would accept 36. Any more would be a negative. If you want huge files with oodles of latitude you really want medium format. Full frame 36x24 is about speed and convenience AFAIAC. If it really is only $2400 it should sell very well. I don't know if it is about speed for sports...the fps will be less than an APS-C. Regardless, it's a FF.

10-26-2015, 09:37 PM	#24
DogLover Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,054	Originally posted by rawr Cheap body, but expensive new lenses. There will be no free lunch. I actually think this supports the lower-priced body theories. The 645D and Z made waves with their low price points. Ricoh would have to be brain-dead not to realize what worked before has a good shot to work again, and Ricoh ain't Hoya. They may be hoping to make up some of the margins on the new lenses. I certainly hope this is indeed their plan because I have little interest in the new lenses, at least not anytime soon. I already have the Sigma 24-70 and, along with my ZK's, I wouldn't feel any burning need for lenses for a while. I might want the 70-200 someday, though.

10-26-2015, 10:02 PM	#25
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by normhead That would be awesome. We'll have to see. Norm, you don't need that FF camera, do you ?

10-27-2015, 02:45 AM	#26
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Early rumors were for 42 megapixel sensor, while current rumors are for the 36 megapixel sensor. From what I can see, the 36 megapixel sensor is better at low iso while the 42 megapixel sensor is better at high iso and video. 36 probably fits better with my style of shooting, but I could work fine with either. If the price point really is 2400 dollars, then it is certainly the 36 megapixel sensor we are looking at. But no one knows the real price of coming full frame. I doubt Ricoh has made a final decision on it so that number feels like pure speculation.

10-27-2015, 04:03 AM	#27
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Don't expect the prices to fall quickly. Knowing Ricoh Imaging/Pentax, they would likely play it safe and underestimate the demand. Again.

10-27-2015, 05:01 AM	#28
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by monochrome Adam has been saying $2,500 max for six months. My bet was $2,800 and Rondec has been right around that. Tex apparently had an extensive conversation with someeone who should know and who he cannot identify because there was a reporter present, so disussion was 'off-the-record". $1,900 street is a damned sharp pricepoint for what that camera appears to be - prricinglike the 645Z in that market. At that price I can keep all my crazy SMC lenses, get the camera and the 70-210, keep the FA24-90 and be VERY happy. The price of the new Pentax FF may start at $4000 in order to slow down the demand and smooth revenue, as Ricoh production line may not produce as much as volumes would be order if the price wqs low at the start.

10-27-2015, 06:05 AM	#29
8stripe Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Northeast USA Posts: 62	For whatever it is worth, when I questioned the Ricoh Rep at the NY show last Thursday, he said that the FF senor is 36mp and 42mp with Pixel Shift enabled. However, I did not ask him if the senor is the same as the Nikon D800.

10-27-2015, 06:09 AM	#30
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by biz-engineer Norm, you don't need that FF camera, do you ? I don't, and honestly, when it comes purchase time this tax season, I'll finally have to make a decision... DFA 150-450 or FF. I can make a case for both, and I go back and forth, day after day. I personally am not convinced there's a lot of difference between a K-3 and a D810 in terms of meaningful out put. The threads on the IR fabrics really pop on a D810, but, you stand back 6 feet and you can't see them anyway. And an FF would require an expensive new wide angle, when I already have the Sigma 8-16 for APS-c. SO while I'm excited about the release, I'm a long way from deciding to purchase. Another part of that, is I haven't been out to an Art Show for over a year. Logistical problems. My local Zellers has beautiful framed canvases for 70 bucks, I used to get $300 for mine, that's less than I can buy the frames for, and if I never do another 30x20 in my life, there is no possibility I'll see any benefit from a full frame, printing at 18x12 or whatever. SO, I'm not sure what the circumstances would be that would inspire me to buy a full frame, but I'm really happy there's going to be one available. It's kind of like a security blanket. For my wildlife shooting or macro, it's definitely a no go. If it's 3k, it will still be a toss up, used 645D or Pentax FF for landscape. I have some 645 A glass.