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12-13-2015, 03:48 PM   #76
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Someone might hoard, for example, FA 24mm lenses. But these already have a hefty price, and they have some weaknesses. Weaknesses that modern 24mm lenses won't have. There are already alternatives with more modern lenses, like Samyang and Sigma; and maybe Pentax will release a new version. This would case the FA 24mm price to plummet. So I think hoarding lenses in hopes that their price will rise significantly after FF comes out is a big gamble. If someone has the funds to buy the high tech FF, why would they buy old lenses for it, when there are modern alternatives?

12-13-2015, 03:52 PM   #77
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While I agree that the extra 4mm at the wide end would be very nice to have, the FA*28-70 is no slouch, optically. It's main drawbacks are its weight and the slightly noisy focus and zoom drives, but its other plus is the powered zoom. If you don't mind some cosmetic wear (ideally, you'd have the time and capability to remediate that) you can pay a fair bit less than the $900-1,100US cited.
12-13-2015, 04:00 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Agree completely. Though why Pentax releases a DFA*70-200 but no DFA*24-70 still confuses me. I can see why they did not call the DFA 24-70 a '*', it's not their lens but not having a '*' lens in that focal range is very puzzling. It leads me to think there will eventually be a DFA*24-70, 28-70 or something similar. Or maybe they will have a DFA*24-90?? or DFA*22-60??
I believe is not a "*" lens because is not a original design by Pentax, maybe Ricoh cant develop the FF, the 70-200, the 150-450 the 28~120 at the same time with a 24-70 and the 15-30, not because they cant produce these lenses but for a lack of time. They simply license the best lenses they could to fill those gaps ASAP, i dont think we gonna see a '*' 24-70 or a 15-30, not enough market. I prefer to wait for the primes 15,24,28,31,43,77,85,135,200
12-13-2015, 04:46 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by virusn3t Quote
i dont think we gonna see a '*' 24-70 or a 15-30, not enough market.
And yet the combination of * lenses were there in both FA* and DA* incarnations. Why then would there not be enough market for a DFA* version? Makes no sense. 15-30, I have no idea. Most think it will also be a Tamron design.
I agree they used the Tamron 24-70 to get a good design in place quickly and they did not call it a '*' because it is not their design. So maybe they will not make a * version, who knows. The Tamron is well regarded so I'm sure it will be fine. The question is what can they do that will be better enough so they can put a '*' label on it?

Personally I would like a DFA*24-120 f/4. That would have more utility for me than the f/2.8 lens.

12-13-2015, 05:33 PM   #80
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Apparently (asahi man, sort of affirmed by Mistral75) 2016 will be the year of the FF Prime. As many as eight of them. The Hirakawa-san designed Tamron should be good enough.
12-14-2015, 05:20 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
2016 will be the year of the FF Prime. As many as eight of them.
Okay, so if they all turn out to be DC AW Wunderkindern with optics that blow every previous Limited lens away, this should mean a horde of FA Limiteds being sold off by people eager to get their hands on better glass, with prices dropping accordingly (or perhaps not, because of course they will probably replace the FA Limiteds in production and being out of production tends to raise prices, and so on... Probably it will even out.)
12-14-2015, 10:49 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Okay, so if they all turn out to be DC AW Wunderkindern with optics that blow every previous Limited lens away, this should mean a horde of FA Limiteds being sold
I think the original post by Asahi Man said 'primes' no mention AFAIK has ever been made about DFA Limited's. That has always been an assumption, one that makes sense, but only an assumption. Ricoh could easily introduce a set of nice primes without any of the Limited's, not saying they would or that it would make sense, just that they could.

For example a 20mm, 24mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm and 135mm would all be standard FF primes that already exist in the catalog in some fashion. Depending on what they are counting they might also include an updated 200mm and 300mm. That's 9 without any Limited's.
12-14-2015, 11:06 AM   #83
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Well, they could be Limited by name or Limited by nature (i.e. up to that standard, but not formally called Limited).

12-14-2015, 05:23 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Well, they could be Limited by name or Limited by nature (i.e. up to that standard, but not formally called Limited).
Limited has been taken to mean: metal construction, very good optics, very small in size and not necessarily very fast. Whether that is what Ricoh means by Limited, who knows. And the FA Limiteds could be considered 'fast' though the DA Limiteds are slower. Part of the problem is simply time, the terms have been used by a number of different owners and management teams so whether the original "Limited" philosophy is still in place or what it has morphed into is unknown.

We could (if there is really a way to organize this) end up with three ranges of primes:
1) Plastic fantastic: good optics at a great price. Plastic body and mount and whatever other compromises needed to keep the price down
2) '*' designated lenses: great optics, great build, fast aperture
3) Limited lenses: great optics, metal construction, small size at the expense of aperture speed

But that is all speculation and a lot hinges on sales of bodies, in particular the FF. Without sales of bodies the incentive to build out the lens line will evaporate.
12-14-2015, 05:38 PM   #85
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Limited with FA lenses, as you've indicated, only partially aligns with those criteria, ie metal construction, very good optics, sometimes small and always quite fast. More likely, what it means is "very well specified and priced accordingly, so sales will be limited, as a result".
12-14-2015, 05:48 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
"very well specified and priced accordingly, so sales will be limited, as a result".
LOL, that might be right.

Anyway it is dangerous to assume the future will be the same as the past. What do stockbrokers say? "Past performance is not a predictor of future results".
12-14-2015, 06:05 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
LOL, that might be right.

Anyway it is dangerous to assume the future will be the same as the past. What do stockbrokers say? "Past performance is not a predictor guarantee of future results".


FA Limited has meaning. DA Limited has meaning. 'Star' has meaning.

D-FA Limited will have a (new) meaning. *

* So here is my entirely speculative wish (assuming D-FA Limiteds are HD, DC and no aperture ring): when the current stock of traditional FA Limiteds runs out they do another, 'Limited' production run of the traditional lenses.
02-17-2016, 06:42 PM   #88
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