Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-16-2016, 05:46 AM - 1 Like   #46
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,500
QuoteOriginally posted by Aoresteen Quote
If they are priced above $2K for the Pentax FF body they will have disappointing sales.
I think they're shrewd enough to price it so that they sell everything they want to make. That doesn't mean they want to make 500,000 units.

At first they'll be overwhelmed with orders, like the 645z, then they'll catch up. They'll price to take advantage of initial demand, then it will drift lower.

01-16-2016, 09:12 AM   #47
Junior Member
Aoresteen's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 38
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You're not going to convert others by price alone. No matter how cheap they sell, Pentax cannot beat the price of not jumping ship: it costs zero to keep your existing camera.
The next level of cheapness is to be cheaper than everything else out there. It won't work either; there will always be some second hand, twice replaced model, half broken camera on ebay. Oh, and such people won't buy new lenses either; they're cheaper second hand.

So the bright strategy of trying to sell to people without money can't possibly work. Is there an alternative? Yes: sell to people with money. But then, you have to make a compelling product.
True but remember, most of the existing lenses for k mount auto focus are aps-c lenses and will not cover FF. So it is not just getting a new body - it is buying into a new system body and new lenses. Why buy a FF body and use it with aps-c lenses? If I have to replace lenses why not buy Nikon, Canon, or Sony FF systen that cost less than what Pentax FF will cost?

Price really matters.
01-16-2016, 09:45 AM   #48
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,500
QuoteOriginally posted by Aoresteen Quote
Why buy a FF body and use it with aps-c lenses?
Whether the camera meets our expectations is at least partly dependent on our expectations. If I'm a Nikon user I can buy a D610 and a FF kit lens and be finished, or if I have the money I can buy a D810 and several expensive lenses. Yet people buy the more expensive FF. Different cameras for different buyers. This camera isn't built to attract the D610 group. It has a higher feature set and it won't be priced there.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not just assume you are spreading FUD - -

I don't think it's necessarily true that current Pentax lenses are mostly not FF suitable even now - and I really don't think it's going to be true in a few weeks. Many of the AF lenses labeled 'APSc' are actually fully FF capable, though not all of them. I expect a full suite of general use D-FA lenses will be announced with the K-1, along with the four main zooms. Some of the 'new' lenses might be reworks of the existing DA lenses. The specialty items (super-teles, fast wides, f/1.2 normal) will come later.

The most important thing you should understand is it isn't necessarily true that Pentax is trying, with this camera, to de-program a whole bunch of Canon and Nikon and Sony users. Indications from the teaser site (LX feature; all K-mount lenses compatible feature; DA*55/300/DA560 feature; SMC FA Limiteds feature) seem to indicate they plan to sell this camera to current users, and people who kept some nice Pentax lenses when they jumped ship to CaNiSony.

We'll know the initial reception in a few weeks and the level of acceptance of the K-1 in just a few months.

Last edited by monochrome; 01-16-2016 at 01:29 PM.
01-16-2016, 02:40 PM - 2 Likes   #49
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,292
QuoteOriginally posted by Aoresteen Quote
True but remember, most of the existing lenses for k mount auto focus are aps-c lenses and will not cover FF.
I think you are seriously in error with that statement.


01-16-2016, 04:10 PM   #50
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,600
QuoteOriginally posted by Aoresteen Quote
most of the existing lenses for k mount auto focus are aps-c lenses and will not cover FF
Sigh. There are over a dozen Pentax-brand lenses on sale today that will happily cover the FF image circle, for: 31mm, 35mm, 40mm, 43mm, two 50mm's, 55mm, 70mm, 77mm, several 100mm's, 200mm, 300mm, 560mm, 60-250mm, 24-70mm, 150-450mm and maybe a few more I've missed. Plus more Sigma's (35/85/300/500/50-500 etc), many SamYangs (14mm upwards), a few Tamrons etc.

The Pentax FF launch will introduce more FF lenses to this already respectable list. Lots of glass for professionals and amateurs to play with.

Last edited by rawr; 01-16-2016 at 04:15 PM.
01-16-2016, 05:41 PM   #51
Junior Member
Aoresteen's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 38
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Sigh. There are over a dozen Pentax-brand lenses on sale today that will happily cover the FF image circle, for: 31mm, 35mm, 40mm, 43mm, two 50mm's, 55mm, 70mm, 77mm, several 100mm's, 200mm, 300mm, 560mm, 60-250mm, 24-70mm, 150-450mm and maybe a few more I've missed. Plus more Sigma's (35/85/300/500/50-500 etc), many SamYangs (14mm upwards), a few Tamrons etc.

The Pentax FF launch will introduce more FF lenses to this already respectable list. Lots of glass for professionals and amateurs to play with.
I based my statement that "most" Pentax lenses are APS-C on how B&H lists Pentax K lenses. Currently there are 43 Pentax lenses available as listed on B&H's website. 10 are listed as full frame, 33 are listed as APS-C. At this point we will have to wait until the FF camera is actually released and then it will be a year before we will know how well it has done in the market.
01-16-2016, 07:32 PM   #52
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 7,743
QuoteOriginally posted by Aoresteen Quote
I based my statement that "most" Pentax lenses are APS-C on how B&H lists Pentax K lenses. Currently there are 43 Pentax lenses available as listed on B&H's website. 10 are listed as full frame, 33 are listed as APS-C. At this point we will have to wait until the FF camera is actually released and then it will be a year before we will know how well it has done in the market.
Aoresteen, are you aware of Pentax history? All those film lenses are full frame - glorious designs like the FA31, FA 85 f1.4 and A50 1.2 ... you look what's for sale used from Adorama, KEH, this forum and eBay.

And a tip about those APS-C lenses at B&H?

If they're normal or tele primes, almost all will work as FF, everything else including the DA zooms will too but in crop mode.

You have decades of fantastic glass to choose from. ☺

Last edited by clackers; 01-16-2016 at 08:56 PM.
01-16-2016, 08:08 PM - 1 Like   #53
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,500
QuoteOriginally posted by Aoresteen Quote
I based my statement that "most" Pentax lenses are APS-C on how B&H lists Pentax K lenses. Currently there are 43 Pentax lenses available as listed on B&H's website. 10 are listed as full frame, 33 are listed as APS-C. At this point we will have to wait until the FF camera is actually released and then it will be a year before we will know how well it has done in the market.
I went to the Ricoh Japan website and quickly counted, where I found 19 Pentax lenses we know are APSc DA and 10 that are FA or D FA, plus 4 DA or DA* lenses that we know are intentional FF designs. I didn't double-count black and silver or old-stock SMC where the new lens is HD. Don't hold me to the numbers. I might be off by one, but so what? We know there are two more FF zooms coming next months and hear there are 5 to 6 FF primes coming. Our numbers don't seem to match.

I think we're about to see how many people will buy this FF when they could pay much less for APSc. Pentax has always made highly spec'ed cameras with great image files, durability and handling at a price below the features warrant, IOW good values. They often make technical breakthroughs that excite the market like K10D, K5lls and 645z. There's no reason to think that will change with the K-1.


Last edited by monochrome; 01-17-2016 at 12:37 AM.
01-16-2016, 09:56 PM - 1 Like   #54
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NJ
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,705
QuoteOriginally posted by Aoresteen Quote
I based my statement that "most" Pentax lenses are APS-C on how B&H lists Pentax K lenses. Currently there are 43 Pentax lenses available as listed on B&H's website. 10 are listed as full frame, 33 are listed as APS-C. At this point we will have to wait until the FF camera is actually released and then it will be a year before we will know how well it has done in the market.
There are silver and black variations of some lenses, so those are being double-counted. There are also several lenses which, although labeled as "DA", are actually FF designs and have already been proven here on PF to be fully FF compatible.
01-17-2016, 08:13 AM   #55
Forum Member




Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Phoenixville, PA
Posts: 75
QuoteOriginally posted by Aoresteen Quote
The A7 II is not $3000 - it's $1700. The Canon FF 6D is $1400. It's the Pentax FF that will be more expensive.

Look guys, I've used Pentax since 1978. I have 6 Pentax film bodies & 7 lenses. I want Pentax to succeed. But price matters and they need to sell not only to their loyal base but to convert others to join the Pentax camp.

36mp isn't going to make people jump. Price will. Buyers will pay a premium for Nikon/Canon but not for Pentax. Look at the K5 & K3 pricing compared to other APS-C systems. Pentax is not the price leader. They are one of the lower end systems. They are way late into the FF game. If they are priced above $2K for the Pentax FF body they will have disappointing sales.

---------- Post added 01-16-16 at 05:30 AM ----------



No, they will continue with their APS-C cameras and the FF camera. But they are going to have a hard time making sales if they don't price their FF camera below $2K.
That is so true. There are maybe few hundreds who are willing to pay more and for some reason they want the price to be over 2.5K.
However what happens after these enthusiasts have bought their cameras?
For Pentax to be in the game, they need to come up with an entry level FF Dslr.
How about they announce an entry level camera - like KS2 fitted with a FF sensor? That should still be possible to make a FF under 1K USD and they will be a game changer!
Many would like much less features as we can do a lot more post processing on the computer.

---------- Post added 01-17-16 at 08:21 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Aoresteen, are you aware of Pentax history? All those film lenses are full frame - glorious designs like the FA31, FA 85 f1.4 and A50 1.2 ... you look what's for sale used from Adorama, KEH, this forum and eBay.

And a tip about those APS-C lenses at B&H?

If they're normal or tele primes, almost all will work as FF, everything else including the DA zooms will too but in crop mode.

You have decades of fantastic glass to choose from. ☺
I often see the mention of available pentax glass and it is very smart and nice of Pentax to allow reuse of lenses.
However, the problem is for newcomers.
I tried M 50/1.7, A50/2.0 and FA 80-320. The DA lenses 50/1.8 and 55-300 give me far better pictures ..then the used ones. I could be unlucky to have bad pieces as they were bought on ebay.
However .. when we say reuse of lenses, we are thinking "cost effectiveness". Now why would someone go for used lenses when they can afford price of 2.5K for body of K1!

Last edited by abhaskare; 01-17-2016 at 08:23 AM.
01-17-2016, 09:30 AM   #56
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,500
QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
For Pentax to be in the game, they need to come up with an entry level FF Dslr.
Just suppose for a minute that right now Pentax doesn't want or need to be in the game you are thinking about. Maybe in twenty years - but a long journey starts with a single step.
01-17-2016, 10:35 AM   #57
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,663
QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
That is so true. There are maybe few hundreds who are willing to pay more and for some reason they want the price price of 2.5K for body of K1!
Well, just 2 things...

No on will make new FF camera for under 1500...prizes will go lower eventually, but not at first..APS-C and others hits that mark.

second. Old good glass is great old Zooms and those more modern zooms with that prize are, and will be 'good enough'. FF will make it even more complicated. You'd be better off, with more modern DA 35/2.4 and 50/1.8...then some wide angle lenses, like M20 and or M75-150 and some vintage longer lenses...or proper long zooms. I suppose that FA 100-300 will be good enough. But it is really obvious, that Pentax/Ricoh is gonna go with 150-450 for long end. you will be able to use 60-250 too.

why this? Really new FF will be for people who will need it, and has some money for it.
Really, if prize is a problem. Why not to buy one of those cheapo older gen FF instead?
01-17-2016, 10:42 AM   #58
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,432
People without money should just accept they cannot afford certain products. Lies like "there are maybe few hundreds" don't solve the real problem, which is - as I said - that they can't afford the product. Getting a better job, saving up more or going for a more affordable product are workable solutions.

Last edited by Kunzite; 01-17-2016 at 10:47 AM.
01-17-2016, 10:57 AM   #59
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,663
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
People without money should just accept they cannot afford certain products. Lies like "there are maybe few hundreds" don't solve the real problem, which is - as I said - that they can't afford the product. Getting a better job, saving up more or going for a more affordable product are workable solutions.
I'd actually say that there is no problem to not to 'afford'. You can be happy with what ever you have, or not. I have began to make some money with my photography. I still ponder what it is that I want to offer more? should I make an investment. If I decide to do so, there is other question, what kind of investment I want to do. as I said, If New Pentax FF will not make in that...I'll look elsewhere OR continue with my K-3 and/or K-3 II and some new lenses... No one will be harmed.

This is purely by what you want to do, and how much are you willing to pay for it. Wether you need it or so...this is one question that one have to answer to them selves.
01-17-2016, 11:08 AM   #60
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,432
Yes, indeed - I see acceptance as a necessary condition for being happy with what you can actually buy, instead of always wanting unreachable things.
And of course, there are many things I can't afford.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, accuracy, af, announcement, aps-c, camera, canon, ebay, ff, full-frame, issue, k-3, k-5ii, lenses, market, nikon, pentax, pm, post, price, product, reason, sales, systems, term, time, volume
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will the new Pentax K1 FF be DOA?? Shanti Pentax Full Frame 87 02-17-2016 06:42 PM
Regarding the new Pentax K1 benjikan Pentax Full Frame 11 12-11-2015 03:42 PM
The k1 official Mattox Pentax Full Frame 7 11-05-2015 10:19 AM
Pentax K1??? micmac Pentax DSLR Discussion 2 07-22-2012 02:33 AM
K1 an KRF1 Wishlist amilcaralzaga Pentax DSLR Discussion 4 01-26-2010 02:19 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:30 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top