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01-17-2016, 11:14 AM - 1 Like   #61
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There's a difference between a person who earns money (or some money) from photography and a person who takes pictures for pleasure. Professionals buy or lease tools. For the most part we should assume the professional can do a reasonably businesslike cost/benefit analysis and decide whether Pentax has the kit yet. They can certainly afford what we think is coming at what we think the price will be.

Pleasure shooters (generally) buy toys. Other than for the stupid rich, every purchase decision is a choice. I could easily have saved my money since last spring, sold a few lenses that get used once a year and bought the K-1 and the 24~70 / 70~210 combo. But I didn't.

I chose to buy 11 old manual focus lenses that others were selling so they could buy the K-1 - and to wait a while to buy my own K-1. I'm happy with my choice, though of course I'm interested in what happens for Pentax. Others will make a different choice. Some won't be able to buy a K-1 at all - but maybe a K-3II will be attainable, or the K-50 replacement.

Some can't even do that. It is hard to accept, but they aren't Pentax customers, certainly not K-1 customers.


Last edited by monochrome; 01-17-2016 at 11:29 AM.
01-17-2016, 01:33 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
I often see the mention of available pentax glass and it is very smart and nice of Pentax to allow reuse of lenses.
However, the problem is for newcomers.
I tried M 50/1.7, A50/2.0 and FA 80-320. The DA lenses 50/1.8 and 55-300 give me far better pictures ..then the used ones. I could be unlucky to have bad pieces as they were bought on ebay.
Use of old glass is an interesting issue for Pentax to deal with in the K-1.

Thanks largely to mirrorless cameras like the Sony NEX/A7 series - with the associated explosion of cheap E-mount adapters for every single lens mount found in nature - we are witnessing something of a 'golden age' for old glass at the moment. Case in point: I notice dpreview has recently bowed to popular pressure and opened a new 'Adapted lens talk forum.

Old glass may often have it's flaws, but LOTS of people world-wide are clearly happy to overlook any inadequacies of old glass, and mount them on the latest high tech digital bodies. Technical deficiencies like lack of AF, higher CA etc are balanced by factors like the general affordability of older lenses, and sometimes just their charm.

Pentax - as the creator of an ocean of old glass - almost has a moral obligation to make the K-1 work great with old glass , and certainly work better with old Pentax lenses than anyone elses solution. Hopefully we will see that happen with the K-1.
01-17-2016, 02:13 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There's a difference between a person who earns money (or some money) from photography and a person who takes pictures for pleasure. Professionals buy or lease tools. For the most part we should assume the professional can do a reasonably businesslike cost/benefit analysis and decide whether Pentax has the kit yet. They can certainly afford what we think is coming at what we think the price will be.

Pleasure shooters (generally) buy toys. Other than for the stupid rich, every purchase decision is a choice. I could easily have saved my money since last spring, sold a few lenses that get used once a year and bought the K-1 and the 24~70 / 70~210 combo. But I didn't.

I chose to buy 11 old manual focus lenses that others were selling so they could buy the K-1 - and to wait a while to buy my own K-1. I'm happy with my choice, though of course I'm interested in what happens for Pentax. Others will make a different choice. Some won't be able to buy a K-1 at all - but maybe a K-3II will be attainable, or the K-50 replacement.

Some can't even do that. It is hard to accept, but they aren't Pentax customers, certainly not K-1 customers.
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Use of old glass is an interesting issue for Pentax to deal with in the K-1.

Thanks largely to mirrorless cameras like the Sony NEX/A7 series - with the associated explosion of cheap E-mount adapters for every single lens mount found in nature - we are witnessing something of a 'golden age' for old glass at the moment. Case in point: I notice dpreview has recently bowed to popular pressure and opened a new 'Adapted lens talk forum.

Old glass may often have it's flaws, but LOTS of people world-wide are clearly happy to overlook any inadequacies of old glass, and mount them on the latest high tech digital bodies. Technical deficiencies like lack of AF, higher CA etc are balanced by factors like the general affordability of older lenses, and sometimes just their charm.

Pentax - as the creator of an ocean of old glass - almost has a moral obligation to make the K-1 work great with old glass , and certainly work better with old Pentax lenses than anyone elses solution. Hopefully we will see that happen with the K-1.
Just to QUOTE these as one, IMO pentax history is really one thing and that great glass is what it has been regardles of anything. And that is why it is great to have also some new ones. K-1(tentative) does have a lot of expectations to fill, neverthe less more modern ones. It will be good to have this opportunity.
01-17-2016, 06:30 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
For Pentax to be in the game, they need to come up with an entry level FF Dslr.
What game? Why do you think this is a game? Or any kind of competition? This not football, or baseball, there is no prize for 'winning'. All Ricoh has to do is make a good camera and sell as many as they want to produce. Which is a tiny number compared to the big manufactures. Discrete cameras, as opposed to phones, is a shrinking market. In a shrinking market the prize goes to the efficient not the one with the huge production line and enormous lens catalog they have to support. The only thing they 'need' is to keep their line running and sell trouble free cameras.
QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
There are maybe few hundreds who are willing to pay more and for some reason they want the price to be over 2.5K.
I don't understand this either, no one 'wants' the price to be high, though I do expect it to be simply based on the prices of the lenses introduced. I expect the release price to be at a premium that will drop as production meets demand. If it less than $2,000 I will be delighted but I won't be surprised at $3,000 or more.

01-18-2016, 06:36 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
People without money should just accept they cannot afford certain products. Lies like "there are maybe few hundreds" don't solve the real problem, which is - as I said - that they can't afford the product. Getting a better job, saving up more or going for a more affordable product are workable solutions.
It is not about if one has the money and can afford but about how much value addition is there. It is not a big deal to raise 2-3K. This added value is highly subjective. The only major upgrade I am interested on top of what I have in my K5II is a FF sensor. That sure is not in thousands!
Wanting the price lower is all time market demand. When price is lower. sales increase exponentially and thus bringing more funds to the company for further R&D. Canikon have already done that. Let us see what Ricoh does anything going fwd - if they are happy with the around 5% market share or want larger!

Last edited by abhaskare; 01-18-2016 at 06:42 AM.
01-18-2016, 07:03 AM   #66
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It is about people who can't afford, or are otherwise unwilling to pay a fair price. That's the only reason for "please make a sub-$1000 FF DSLR.
The idea is of course unsupported; people asking for an extremely cheap camera are unable to prove that it's actually possible, nor that it would raise Pentax' market share instead of killing them.
01-19-2016, 09:40 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Aoresteen, are you aware of Pentax history? All those film lenses are full frame - glorious designs like the FA31, FA 85 f1.4 and A50 1.2 ... you look what's for sale used from Adorama, KEH, this forum and eBay.

And a tip about those APS-C lenses at B&H?

If they're normal or tele primes, almost all will work as FF, everything else including the DA zooms will too but in crop mode.

You have decades of fantastic glass to choose from. ☺
Of course I'm aware of Pentax history. I bought my 1st Pentax SLR in 1978. In the 90's I had 12 Spotmatic bodies including 2 motor drive units with 250exp backs. I had about 25 lenses as well - most were Takumars SMC & Super. Right now I have 5 m42 Pentax bodies (2 SL, 3 ESII), a K1000, and 20, 28, 35, 50 1.4, 100, & 200mm lenses all SMC. Plus a couple of other M42 lenses as well.

That is why I'm interested in a FF body - primarily to use my 20, 28, & 35mm SMC Takumars. I'll have 3 choices - a Canon DSLR, a Sony A7/A7II, and the unreleased Pentax FF DSLR. I've held off buying a FF body as I want to see exactly what the new Pentax FF camera will offer.

As to APS-C Pentax lenses that cover FF, I'll wait until actual tests are done using the Pentax FF to see how well they do cover the area beyond the APS-C sensor. Wide angles that cover FF film do not necessarily cover a FF digital sensor as well. This has been an issue with the Leica M FF cameras and the Sony A7 using wide angle FF lenses and some lenses do it well, others not so well. SLR wide angles seem to do it better than rangefinder glass as they are further away from the sensor.

My interest in a FF digital camera is mainly for using my wide angle prime lenses. I'm heavily invested in Olympus Four Thirds DLSR cameras and glass (E-5, E-3, E-1, E420) and I'm very satisfied with them except for their wide angle prime lenses. There are NONE save for a single fish-eye prime lens in Four Thirds. With my Olympus Four Thirds glass I get stunning 16x20 prints (the limiting factor is me the operator, not the camera ) so I have no real reason to jump to a FF except for using wide angle prime lenses.

---------- Post added 01-19-16 at 09:50 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
...

No on will make new FF camera for under 1500......
Right now Sony is selling the A7 for $1100.

Sony a7 Digital Camera ILCE7/B - B&H Photo Video

This is due to the A7II which is priced at $1700

Sony a7II Alpha Mirrorless Digital Camera (Alpha a7II Body) ILCE7M2/B

That is 1560 - close enough for me to 1500.
01-19-2016, 10:18 AM   #68
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He said, new FF camera. The A7 was replaced 1 1/2 years ago.
Besides, the K-1 is upper range compared to the A7 series.

01-19-2016, 10:32 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
He said, new FF camera. The A7 was replaced 1 1/2 years ago.
Besides, the K-1 is upper range compared to the A7 series.

I listed BOTH of the A7s.

The A7II is current and is the one I said was the 1560 FF camera

The K1 is vaporware right now. You can't say it's in the upper range because it doesn't exist yet. When it's out we will see exactly where it lines up with other FF cameras.
01-19-2016, 10:42 AM   #70
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I think the A7 II was introduced in the European market at about 1700 euro. Which might be close to 1500 euro, but still, repaap's argument is standing. He said "for under 1500".
No, the K-1 is not vaporware, and it definitely exists; it just wasn't launched to the market yet
01-19-2016, 11:08 AM - 1 Like   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aoresteen Quote
I listed BOTH of the A7s.

The A7II is current and is the one I said was the 1560 FF camera

The K1 is vaporware right now. You can't say it's in the upper range because it doesn't exist yet. When it's out we will see exactly where it lines up with other FF cameras.
Oh, but you wrote about A7II which comes with 24 MP sensor and sucks in batterylife...launch prize in Finland 1900 now 1600

Then A7rII, which will BTW be in same category with 'vapourwareK-1' was whopping 3200 at launch...

AND, if new pentax FF would be 24mp. I can already see that rumble of DOOOMED, which will come anyway.
And Sony did make these cameras in really tight salary. So your point was/is? Or are you just trolling me?
01-19-2016, 11:18 AM   #72
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The point is the same as always: PentaxIsDoomed
01-19-2016, 01:43 PM   #73
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But pentax fans don't want Sony's BS.
Only their best sensor.
01-19-2016, 02:15 PM - 1 Like   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aoresteen Quote

As to APS-C Pentax lenses that cover FF, I'll wait until actual tests are done using the Pentax FF to see how well they do cover the area beyond the APS-C sensor. Wide angles that cover FF film do not necessarily cover a FF digital sensor as well. This has been an issue with the Leica M FF cameras and the Sony A7 using wide angle FF lenses and some lenses do it well, others not so well.
The K-1 is *not* a mirrorless with it's too short registration distance.

It's a DSLR, and I exoect wide angle K-mount lenses to be even better on it than they have been on my Sony A7.

As for the APS-C lenses you mention, I and many others have been shooting for years with them on FF, there are plenty of threads about this if you'd bothered to do your homework.
01-19-2016, 02:26 PM   #75
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Guys, get a grip. I never said Pentax is doomed. I said I had three options for a FF digital camera: Canon FF DSLR, Sony A7/A7II, or the forthcoming FF Pentax DSL. I am willing to wait until the Pentax FF comes out before I make a final decision on which FF camera to buy. Does that sound like doom to you?

So who has actually touched the Pentax FF camera, looked through it and taken a picture with it? No one outside of Pentax so far. It's a glass case queen right now. And until it's available for general purchase it's vaporware.

(DPREVIEW.COM PHOTO)



Anyone remember the Olympus MDN? Never made it to market. The OM-1 did instead.



So let's be patient and wait a bit longer until Pentax releases copies to the major press entities for hands-on reviews before we cast features into concrete and speak of them as facts.
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