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01-20-2016, 12:01 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
That would be unfair to all early buyers who will then have to see the price drop down "pretty quickly".
Yeah, but the plus side of being an early adopter is that you will have lots of new friends on this forum.

I bought one of the very first Pentax K3ii's that B&H sold last Spring. Once the folks on this forum found out that I was an early adopter, people came out of the woodwork to ask me to test and report on stuff they were interested in.

01-20-2016, 12:02 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
From the wikipedia:
"In the computer industry, vaporware (also spelt vapourware) is a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually manufactured nor officially cancelled."
The 2001 attempt is not vaporware, because it was officially cancelled. The current K-1 is not vaporware, because the announcement date is still in the future.
The Pentax Full Frame DSLR WAS officially announced back in Feb. 2015, along with an anticipated release date before end of 2015. Since it has not yet been released, nor have any substantial details of it's specifications been revealed since that announcement, it is fare to say that it is currently vaporware until either a firm release date is unveiled or more detailed specifications are announced. Of course, most of us do not expect it to languish as vaporware indefinitely, or even for much longer...
01-20-2016, 12:11 PM - 3 Likes   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
$2400, dropping to $1900 fairly quickly - that would be an exciting price for what's probably going to be a pretty great camera.
Yes. And I do think it's going to be a pretty great camera....for old school photographers. That would include someone like me. Based on what I heard at the Pentax Booth at PhotoExpo, this is specifically targeted to photographers.
What's that mean? We'll see, but what I inferred was a kind of camera that got certain refinements right, in the haptics and in what a still photographer deems important, hopefully in the menus and button customizability. The buttons look good, btw... The Pentax guy was waxing a bit touchy-feely on this, but most of you also ought to understand that a lot of times it's intangibles---or hard-to-describables---that make a big, big difference in the shooting experience. It's like carpenters and hammers or circular saws. Some just suit, and some just don't. I can't stand DeWalt stuff, for instance, and I have to use them all the time at work. Give me my Makita's!

Better In a way perhaps that the otherwise fabulous Sony A7 series somewhat misses (and I have had multiple Sony cameras: the A850, very old school, which I loved; an NEX7, a very cool device, a bit fouled by a wrong-headed menu system, more fouled by its wide angle problems; the A7R, very close to a great camera, especially in the lens adaptability, which is amazing, imo---but not quite a great camera, for reasons I won't go into here---can't speak to the A7RII, as I don't have one. Some things got fixed, but I didn't like the feel of it as well....

Anyway, the more sensitive and/or older of you will understand I think. You who are younger are in some ways luckier, because you are coming to all this stuff fresh, and you can maybe adapt more easily, without all those memories of cameras past.
01-20-2016, 12:17 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Yes. And I do think it's going to be a pretty great camera....for old school photographers. That would include someone like me. Based on what I heard at the Pentax Booth at PhotoExpo, this is specifically targeted to photographers.
What's that mean? We'll see, but what I inferred was a kind of camera that got certain refinements right, in the haptics and in what a still photographer deems important, hopefully in the menus and button customizability. The buttons look good, btw... The Pentax guy was waxing a bit touchy-feely on this, but most of you also ought to understand that a lot of times it's intangibles---or hard-to-describables---that make a big, big difference in the shooting experience. It's like carpenters and hammers or circular saws. Some just suit, and some just don't. I can't stand DeWalt stuff, for instance, and I have to use them all the time at work. Give me my Makita's!

Better In a way perhaps that the otherwise fabulous Sony A7 series somewhat misses (and I have had multiple Sony cameras: the A850, very old school, which I loved; an NEX7, a very cool device, a bit fouled by a wrong-headed menu system, more fouled by its wide angle problems; the A7R, very close to a great camera, especially in the lens adaptability, which is amazing, imo---but not quite a great camera, for reasons I won't go into here---can't speak to the A7RII, as I don't have one. Some things got fixed, but I didn't like the feel of it as well....

Anyway, the more sensitive and/or older of you will understand I think. You who are younger are in some ways luckier, because you are coming to all this stuff fresh, and you can maybe adapt more easily, without all those memories of cameras past.
Well said Tex, it certainly is about more than just IQ and features/bells&whistles, it's also about the "feel" of the camera. Your power tool analogy was spot on.

I've shot Canon and Fuji. I currently shoot Pentax and Nikon. There's just something about the overall "feel" of my Pentax APS-C cameras that I greatly prefer over the feel of my Nikon APS-C bodies. I fully expect the Pentax full frame to continue this experience and have a better feel to me than do the Nikon full frames.


Last edited by Fenwoodian; 01-20-2016 at 12:30 PM.
01-20-2016, 12:20 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by richmondthefish Quote
Pretty common complaint. I've read more than one occasion 645D owners who purchased earlier at close to 10k are annoyed that the price dropped by a lot over the years.
Cameras are like cars, once you drive it out tha store you lose 1/3 of prize. Also old models will have nice discounts. But lenses they tend to keep their value. Atleast more than camera.
01-20-2016, 12:45 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by crussellsprout Quote
The Pentax Full Frame DSLR WAS officially announced back in Feb. 2015, along with an anticipated release date before end of 2015. Since it has not yet been released, nor have any substantial details of it's specifications been revealed since that announcement, it is fare to say that it is currently vaporware until either a firm release date is unveiled or more detailed specifications are announced. Of course, most of us do not expect it to languish as vaporware indefinitely, or even for much longer...
By that logic any product is vaporware for a while, even if it makes it into the market. That's not the accepted usage of the term; vaporware means specifically products which are not launched to the market. You people are way too eager to use derogatory terms for Pentax.
The K-1 suffered one delay, that's all - there are very good reasons to believe it will be announced this spring. If it happens, it won't be vaporware - not for a single second.

---------- Post added 20-01-16 at 09:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Yes. And I do think it's going to be a pretty great camera....for old school photographers. That would include someone like me. Based on what I heard at the Pentax Booth at PhotoExpo, this is specifically targeted to photographers.
Sounds so tempting...
01-20-2016, 02:12 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
There's just something about the overall "feel" of my Pentax APS-C cameras that I greatly prefer over the feel of my Nikon APS-C bodies. I fully expect the Pentax full frame to continue this experience and have a better feel to me than do the Nikon full frames.
It's a classic feel. Pic related (from 1969):

(from PentaxForum member Nesster's set of Pentax ads on flickr).
01-20-2016, 04:13 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
The Pentax guy was waxing a bit touchy-feely on this, but most of you also ought to understand that a lot of times it's intangibles---or hard-to-describables---that make a big, big difference in the shooting experience. It's like carpenters and hammers or circular saws. Some just suit, and some just don't. I can't stand DeWalt stuff, for instance, and I have to use them all the time at work. Give me my Makita's!
+100 I am quite confident that I can take good (or as good as my skills permit) pictures with almost any brand of camera. I use Pentax because I like they way it fits my hand, like the way the buttons are located, and so on. It has almost nothing to do with the actual end product but rather the experience of producing that product. Every few months I find myself in Best Buy or Costco and handle the other brands, Sony, Nikon and Canon are fairly well represented. And each time I come away wondering how those guys can get it so wrong and Pentax get it so right. I must have weird hands or something I guess since obviously the vast majority prefer the other guys

01-22-2016, 10:48 AM - 1 Like   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
By that logic any product is vaporware for a while, even if it makes it into the market. That's not the accepted usage of the term; vaporware means specifically products which are not launched to the market. You people are way too eager to use derogatory terms for Pentax.
The K-1 suffered one delay, that's all - there are very good reasons to believe it will be announced this spring. If it happens, it won't be vaporware - not for a single second.[COLOR="Silver"]
Products that get anounced with complete specs/msrp/release date are not a "vaporware for a while" until that release date.
They will start slipping into the vaporware territory if/after the release date is not met.

Vaporware is something that gets anonunced, but without any firm release date or exact specification ... then after a period of time longer than what's common in the specific industry - it is still not released or officially cancelled (or at least specifications/release date finaly confirmed).

Sounds familiar, no?
01-22-2016, 10:57 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by npc Quote
Products that get anounced with complete specs/msrp/release date are not a "vaporware for a while" until that release date.
They will start slipping into the vaporware territory if/after the release date is not met.

Vaporware is something that gets anonunced, but without any firm release date or exact specification ... then after a period of time longer than what's common in the specific industry - it is still not released or officially cancelled (or at least specifications/release date finaly confirmed).

Sounds familiar, no?
I saw a fully functioning unit so I know it exists. Now it is possible that they delay or cancel it altogether. My money is on it being here and very soon. It may have glitches like all the new releases do but I am counting on seeing it soon and ordering one shortly after that.
01-22-2016, 11:13 AM   #101
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Always learning something new. So English is not my first language so when a term comes up I tend to look it up somewhere. To see if i'm on the right track.


Vaporware.....

Well this samsung medium format probably is vaporware....



Then to the term from Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

There is at least one frame that was very much on Pentax reps mind one year ago when the plastic blob was presented...
Vaporware is often announced months or years before its purported release, with development details lacking. Developers have been accused of intentionally promoting vaporware to keep customers from switching to competing products that offer more features.

We will see what the future brings. Having a functional showmodel is just one step in the proces of having a "mass production" camera.

Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 01-22-2016 at 11:31 AM.
01-22-2016, 11:28 AM   #102
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Ron, no personal attacks please.

Btw, the Samsung medium format is not vaporware, as it was never announced by the company - all we have are some box-shaped cameras and unfounded rumors.
01-22-2016, 11:33 AM   #103
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2016 and onwards ain't looking too hot economically. Oil, Baltic Dry Index, China, the end of QE and rising interest rates, all point to global recession, possibly even a depression.

I my country, Thailand, foreign direct investment fell 78% over 2015. In my other country, the UK, the debt bubble and the City of London bubble are ready to pop. I'm not filled with confidence and personally, I've kicked into survival mode, new cameras are the last thing on my mind (at least I try not to think about them too much and remember that the kids come first).

Will this affect the launch price of the long, long awaited full frame Pentax? I would hazard that discretionary big ticket items are going to get pummelled from this point on as confidence falls.
01-22-2016, 11:33 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Ron, no personal attacks please.

Btw, the Samsung medium format is not vaporware, as it was never announced by the company - all we have are some box-shaped cameras and unfounded rumors.
You are right on the first. But please stop doing that. You can't make a normal conversation overhere without someone shouting.....or accusing......The doomed thing.
01-22-2016, 11:34 AM   #105
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2016 and onwards ain't looking too hot economically. Oil, Baltic Dry Index, China, the end of QE and rising interest rates, all point to global recession, possibly even a depression.

I my country, Thailand, foreign direct investment fell 78% over 2015. In my other country, the UK, the debt bubble and the City of London bubble are ready to pop. I'm not filled with confidence and personally, I've kicked into survival mode, new cameras are the last thing on my mind (at least I try not to think about them too much and remember that the kids come first).

Will this affect the launch price of the long, long awaited full frame Pentax? I would hazard that discretionary big ticket items are going to get pummelled from this point on as confidence falls.
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