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12-16-2015, 10:12 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by kentster Quote
is It now less than 25 mega pixels ?
Yes. It will be 11.11MP Divide FF MP by 2.25 to get crop MP: 25 / 2.25 = 11.111111111111111111111111111111...
You are cropping the image.
QuoteOriginally posted by kentster Quote
will the IQ be the same
It depends on the camera.

12-16-2015, 10:30 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by kentster Quote
One more full frame question.


If you are comparing 2 cameras... one FF One CS. both rated at 25 mega pixels.


If you shoot the FF in a Crop mode.... is It now less than 25 mega pixels ?


Shooting same subject...same conditions with a CS and a FF in 1.5 crop mode...will the IQ be the same ?
Yes. If you shoot the 25mp FF in crop mode, you're using significantly less surface area of the sensor & therefore, fewer pixels.

The pixel peepers will swear that the FF always beats crop IQ. That's not necessarily 100% true 100% of the time.
12-16-2015, 10:39 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by dansamy Quote
Yes. If you shoot the 25mp FF in crop mode, you're using significantly less surface area of the sensor & therefore, fewer pixels.

The pixel peepers will swear that the FF always beats crop IQ. That's not necessarily 100% true 100% of the time.
Yes but they never post comparison images to prove it. That a load of hogwash. FF users are heavily invested in their systems, they have to justify the cost, they'll say anything to justify their purchase. I've not seen one image anywhere on the net that suggests a cropped D810 image is in anyway better than a k3 image or D7200 image. Of course that doesn't mean there isn't one, it just means I haven't seen it.

So, my response to that is "show me." These guys always, tell you what a great photographer they are, talk up their experience, post a few unrelated photos, and then say, "it's just an impression", they can't actually show you an example. Over the years the pattern has become quite recognizable.

Since I know wildlife guys who carry both FX and DX bodies at the same time, I'd love to ask one of these guys "why do these pros do that? What do they know that you don't?"
12-16-2015, 11:03 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by kentster Quote
One more full frame question.
If you are comparing 2 cameras... one FF One CS. both rated at 25 mega pixels.
If you shoot the FF in a Crop mode.... is It now less than 25 mega pixels ?
yes.

QuoteOriginally posted by kentster Quote
Shooting same subject...same conditions with a CS and a FF in 1.5 crop mode...will the IQ be the same ?
from a pq perspective, there is no point in buying a ff camera, and shooting it in crop mode... people out here still think that ff means 24mp, but ff really means 24-36mp+... when you start pushing lots of pixels around in post, and you see how good the dr/latitude is, and the benefits that come with downrezzing, you'll stop using crop glass on ff.

people who troll ff out here have: 1)never owned a digital ff camera, 2)never edited a ff raw file.

there could be mitigating circumstances in favor of shooting crop on a ff camera... like the evf in an a7* series camera being better than the evf in an a6000; for mf use a cropped 36-42mp a7* series would be easier to use, and give better focusing accuracy.

or better iso performance when shooting a7rii 4k video in super35 crop mode, vs. using the full sensor.

it'll be interesting to see of there are similar caveats with the pentax ff.

12-16-2015, 11:07 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
people out here still think that ff means 24mp, but ff really means 24-36mp+
No, FF means 24x36mm sensor. Nothing to do with MP.
12-16-2015, 11:36 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
No, FF means 24x36mm sensor. Nothing to do with MP.
no, ff can also mean film, that's what it was originally based on.

ff mp count has everything to do with dr, latitude, downrezzing, etc., in part because it's based on differences in sensor technology... the 42mp a7rii uses a bsi sensor, for instance, while the canon 50mp sensor is not bsi(it sucks, just like most canon ff sensors do).

just because it's 24x36mm, doesn't mean that it'll always take the same picture, and behave the same way in post.

a good example of all that is here: Sony A7R teams up with Canon glass

so relevant to this thread, if you crop a weak canon ff sensor, how will it compare to a cropped a7r/d810/pentaxff sensor photo...
12-16-2015, 11:39 AM   #37
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FF does not mean 24-36mp. It means sensor size of 24x36 (or 35mm film)
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
ff mp count has everything to do with dr, latitude, downrezzing, etc.,
Yes but that doesn't define FF.
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
doesn't mean that it'll always take the same picture, and behave the same way in post.
I never said that
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
if you crop a weak canon ff sensor, how will it compare to a cropped a7r/d810 sensor photo
It depends...

Honestly I don't care much. But this is on Pentaxforums so we must argue.
12-16-2015, 11:46 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
Honestly I don't care much. But this is on Pentaxforums so we must argue.
You will find it's rather like arguing with a brick wall...

12-16-2015, 11:48 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
You will find it's rather like arguing with a brick wall...
Sounds about right...
12-16-2015, 11:49 AM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
You will find it's rather like arguing with a brick wall...
It's worse. If you punch a brick wall, it doesn't break your computer monitor.
12-16-2015, 11:51 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's worse. If you punch a brick wall, it doesn't break your computer monitor.
Just your hand
12-16-2015, 12:17 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
FF does not mean 24-36mp. It means sensor size of 24x36 (or 35mm film)

Yes but that doesn't define FF.
yes, it does, just like the differences between film vs. digital defines it.

we'll have to agree to disagree about that.

QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
I never said that
not directed at you...

QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
Honestly I don't care much. But this is on Pentaxforums so we must argue.
true dat, lol... but more like crop people with format inferiority complexes must start arguments same thing on most forums... m4/3 vs. aps-c for example.

most people who own ff don't care what happens in the crop world.
12-16-2015, 12:26 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
we'll have to agree to disagree about that.
OK.
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
yes, it does,
But FF is a format, not a resolution...
12-16-2015, 12:59 PM   #44
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Yep, the K-3 has more pixels than the flagship Canon or Nikon FF.
12-16-2015, 01:27 PM   #45
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Relevant to this discussion. Remember this set of images of the 'plastic lump' mounting a DA 20-40?



Pentax have clearly been thinking about the crop lens issue a lot.

And there is this on the new FF, highlighting that Pentax are probably going to give us lots of options about how we are able to handle crop lenses on the FF body:



tl; dr - no need to fight over crop vs FF modes. With the K-1 it will be easy to work with both.
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