Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-16-2015, 06:38 PM   #61
osv
Pentaxian




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: So Cal
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,080
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Either that or a K-3 is an MF, because it's twice the resolution of an A7S full frame. It could go either way.
the a7s has higher resolution than film does, and you call film full frame... it looks like some brain cells aren't firing somewhere on this forum

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's really rotten of me to be picking on a guy I've ignored. I feel dirty. But I can't help it. Does that make me a bad person?
you were talking to me just four days ago did somebody get their feelings hurt? awww

---------- Post added 12-16-15 at 05:41 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
You`re still wrong...
no, i'm not wrong, because i actually own and use a ff camera.

thanks for proving my point tho.

QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
Some cars are better than some trucks.


Attached Images
 
12-16-2015, 06:42 PM   #62
Pentaxian
bertwert's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Golden, BC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,847
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
the a7s has higher resolution than film does, and you call film full frame... it looks like some brain cells aren't firing somewhere on this forum
THIS ISN'T ABOUT RESOLUTION, IT IS SENSOR/FILM SIZE!!!
Sorry for shouting...

Actually a good quality film shot can be around around 20mp, more than the a7S... (depends on film used and lens used)
12-16-2015, 06:44 PM - 1 Like   #63
Pentaxian
bertwert's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Golden, BC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,847
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
o, i'm not wrong, because i actually own and use a ff camera.
See post above.
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
What's so funny? This is very true.

...

Actually there is only one reason I am still arguing...

Last edited by bertwert; 12-16-2015 at 06:51 PM.
12-16-2015, 06:51 PM   #64
osv
Pentaxian




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: So Cal
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,080
QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
THIS ISN'T ABOUT RESOLUTION, IT IS SENSOR/FILM SIZE!!!
Sorry for shouting...
get back to us when you've actually owned and used a ff camera...

QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
Actually a good quality film shot can be around around 20mp, more than the a7S... (depends on film used and lens used)
"Based on the equivalence of 10.2 micron pixels with film, I estimate that a full-frame sensor with 8.3 megapixels would have resolution equal to 35mm film." Digital cameras vs. film, part 1

---------- Post added 12-16-15 at 05:52 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
...

Actually there is only one reason I am still arguing...
lol, i love that pic!

12-16-2015, 06:54 PM   #65
Pentaxian
bertwert's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Golden, BC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,847
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
I estimate that a full-frame sensor with 8.3 megapixels would have resolution equal to 35mm film
If I were to believe Ken Rockwell I would say film has a resolution of 87MP...
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
get back to us when you've actually owned and used a ff camera...
Doesn't change what a FF is...
12-16-2015, 07:05 PM   #66
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,712
bertwert, you're shooting fish in a barrel dude.
12-16-2015, 07:11 PM   #67
osv
Pentaxian




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: So Cal
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,080
QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
If I were to believe Ken Rockwell I would say film has a resolution of 87MP...
normen koren ain't no ken rockwell, lol

you should stop embarrassing yourself with comments like that.

QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
Doesn't change what a FF is...
it'll change your knowledge level of cameras, tho, and that's where the problem lies.

---------- Post added 12-16-15 at 06:12 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
bertwert, you're shooting fish in a barrel dude.
did we kiss and make up yet? would it help your hurt feelings if i gave you a pity like?
12-16-2015, 07:28 PM - 1 Like   #68
Pentaxian
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
The Befuddled

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
.... I've not seen one image anywhere on the net that suggests a cropped D810 image is in anyway better than a k3 image or D7200 image.
I don't think I've ever seen one image anywhere on the net that suggests a micro 4/3 image is in anyway better than an aps-c image of the same generation.

Thus, anyone who buys aps-c to get 'better quality' or 'more DOF control' or anything like that is full of hogwash. Show me! Hah! I knew it, ya can't!




Right, Norm? It's the exact same argument you made with FF vs. aps-c, why is it not true with aps-c vs. m43? Or is it suddenly true at that tier? At what magical breaking point, in your mind, does sensor size difference suddenly matter?

(By the way, you can check comparometer, dpreview, dxomark, any of the other sites that do offer comparison images if you really do want to compare. I think you do that from time to time when it suits you, or you remember, or you had enough sleep, whatever series of events leads to a break in the cognitive clouds.)


.

12-16-2015, 07:49 PM   #69
Pentaxian
RobA_Oz's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,116
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I don't think I've ever seen one image anywhere on the net that suggests a micro 4/3 image is in anyway better than an aps-c image of the same generation.

Thus, anyone who buys aps-c to get 'better quality' or 'more DOF control' or anything like that is full of hogwash. Show me! Hah! I knew it, ya can't!


Right, Norm? It's the exact same argument you made with FF vs. aps-c, why is it not true with aps-c vs. m43? Or is it suddenly true at that tier? At what magical breaking point, in your mind, does sensor size difference suddenly matter?

(By the way, you can check comparometer, dpreview, dxomark, any of the other sites that do offer comparison images if you really do want to compare. I think you do that from time to time when it suits you, or you remember, or you had enough sleep, whatever series of events leads to a break in the cognitive clouds.)
.
It strikes me that you're really talking about incremental improvements between formats. Obviously, the differences between APS-C and 35FF are going to be smaller (and, possibly, fewer) than those between FT and 35FF. You could take this argument all the way down to the 1/2.3" sensor or smaller (and some might, comparing the Q7 to the Q10), but the question that follows is: how do these differences matter to the individual? The answers are probably way more subjective than the hard measurement analyses will bear out.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not championing one format over any other, but I do note Norm's point, made in many places here, that those who do champion 35FF have a tendency to stop comparisons at that format, and ignore or minimise what differences there are with 645-crop and above. Not that I'm saying you're one of those, mind. In the film era, some people with 8x10s used to regard 35mm users with mild amusement, too. Others recognised that all formats had their place.
12-17-2015, 01:29 AM   #70
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,525
QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
people with 8x10s used to regard 35mm users with mild amusement
Indeed, your 4 of 3rds, APS-C format users and your delusions of full frames, have your petty squabble.

8X10 photographers like me know who really wins in the quest for ultimate image quality. Compared to 8X10, you are all shooting crop formats.


Ebony 8X10 with Schneider 240mm f/5.6 Apo-Symmar. Kodak Tech-Pan 25 developed in Pyrocat HD - printed on pure platinum emulsion.

Last edited by Digitalis; 12-17-2015 at 06:03 AM.
12-17-2015, 03:59 AM - 1 Like   #71
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Indiana
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 14,924
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I don't think I've ever seen one image anywhere on the net that suggests a micro 4/3 image is in anyway better than an aps-c image of the same generation.

Thus, anyone who buys aps-c to get 'better quality' or 'more DOF control' or anything like that is full of hogwash. Show me! Hah! I knew it, ya can't!




Right, Norm? It's the exact same argument you made with FF vs. aps-c, why is it not true with aps-c vs. m43? Or is it suddenly true at that tier? At what magical breaking point, in your mind, does sensor size difference suddenly matter?

(By the way, you can check comparometer, dpreview, dxomark, any of the other sites that do offer comparison images if you really do want to compare. I think you do that from time to time when it suits you, or you remember, or you had enough sleep, whatever series of events leads to a break in the cognitive clouds.)


.
But Jay, if you crop a D810 image to APS-C size, why would you expect it to perform better than a shot from an APS-C camera of current generation? I could be wrong, but that's all it seemed that Norm said. I don't know why you would shoot a D810 camera and just shoot it in crop mode all of the time, but if you did, you would expect to get D7000/K5 performance out of it. Which is fine, but certainly it is a bit of a waste of a pretty expensive camera. I would think your goal, as much as possible, would be to either shoot with longer focal lengths or get closer so that you didn't have to crop much if at all.
12-17-2015, 10:32 AM   #72
Site Supporter
kentster's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Bremerton, Washington
Posts: 287
Original Poster
Looks like we have ventured down a couple rabbit holes




My approach will be this...stay with APSC until I have extra couple grand lying around and get the D810 or new Pentax. For me the 810/K1 would be the best of both worlds.


Monster IQ for Landscape..... option to crop it down when I have the bigger lens on. I now understand it's definitely not a need right now.... but still a big WANT.


Thanks all.
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Indeed, your 4 of 3rds, APS-C format users and your delusions of full frames, have your petty squabble. 8X10 photographers like me know who really wins in the quest for ultimate image quality. Compared to 8X10, you are all shooting crop formats.
BAMMMM!!!!


Digitalis - sure have enjoyed your pics and knowledge in this forum!!!
Attached Images
 
12-17-2015, 11:03 AM   #73
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,712
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
But Jay, if you crop a D810 image to APS-C size, why would you expect it to perform better than a shot from an APS-C camera of current generation? I could be wrong, but that's all it seemed that Norm said. I don't know why you would shoot a D810 camera and just shoot it in crop mode all of the time, but if you did, you would expect to get D7000/K5 performance out of it. Which is fine, but certainly it is a bit of a waste of a pretty expensive camera. I would think your goal, as much as possible, would be to either shoot with longer focal lengths or get closer so that you didn't have to crop much if at all.
Jay is so happy to get on my case, he doesn't actually understand the context of my comments. The guy is so eager to prove himself some kind of knowledge god he can't even be bothered to read the thread. That's why he's on my ignore list. But thanks for alerting me to his side swipe. What a loser.

Jay, you are not actually participating in a conversation, you're just carrying out your usual personal attacks on someone else who isn't even listening to you. I mean, how cowardly is that? You come on here and spout your ignorance, at someone who probably isn't going to respond because he doesn't even know what you're saying unless someone quotes you. It's like beating on people who have their back turned. But totally appropriate to a person such as yourself. Nothin is beneath you as far as I can tell.

What a piece of work.

I'm doing my best to just stay out of your way dude, but you make it difficult.

Now, back to the conversation... post an image where a D810 taken in crop image is better than an 24 MP APS_c image, because that's what we were talking about, or shut your yap.

I'm doing my best to stay out of your way. Man up and reciprocate. If I never hear another word you speak, I'll be a happy man.

Last edited by normhead; 12-17-2015 at 11:27 AM.
12-17-2015, 11:05 AM - 2 Likes   #74
Pentaxian
bertwert's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Golden, BC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,847
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
bertwert, you're shooting fish in a barrel dude.
I've given up now, but something is still wrong on the internet
12-17-2015, 03:26 PM   #75
Loyal Site Supporter
TedH42's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Colorado
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 470
QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
I've given up now, but something is still wrong on the internet
You're giving up way too soon. A few more posts, and the wrong will be righted. Then we'll all be safe and happy again.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, aps-c, camera, change, crop, dof, dslr, ff, film, format, frame, full-frame, ken, ken rockwell, lens, pentax, people, photography, resolution, rockwell, sensor, size, trucks, types, vs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When do you expect the new Full Frame in shops? RonHendriks1966 Pentax Full Frame 47 01-15-2016 11:11 PM
Why Pentax SHOULD make a full frame, an answer to the link on homepage cyberjunkie Pentax Full Frame 302 02-01-2015 07:39 PM
Why full frame? VoiceOfReason Pentax DSLR Discussion 208 07-28-2012 08:09 AM
full frame DSLR camera, when? yxy728 Photographic Technique 34 04-29-2011 09:29 AM
Full-Frame Image Sensor Holy Grail - Why? stewart_photo Pentax DSLR Discussion 82 10-10-2007 03:00 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:21 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top