[osv]

Either that or a K-3 is an MF, because it's twice the resolution of an A7S full frame. It could go either way.

the a7s has higher resolution than film does, and you call film full frame... it looks like some brain cells aren't firing somewhere on this forum

It's really rotten of me to be picking on a guy I've ignored. I feel dirty. But I can't help it. Does that make me a bad person?

you were talking to me just four days ago did somebody get their feelings hurt? awww

---------- Post added 12-16-15 at 05:41 PM ----------

You`re still wrong...

no, i'm not wrong, because i actually own and use a ff camera.

thanks for proving my point tho.

Some cars are better than some trucks.

Attached Images

 

[bertwert]

the a7s has higher resolution than film does, and you call film full frame... it looks like some brain cells aren't firing somewhere on this forum

THIS ISN'T ABOUT RESOLUTION, IT IS SENSOR/FILM SIZE!!!
Sorry for shouting...

Actually a good quality film shot can be around around 20mp, more than the a7S... (depends on film used and lens used)

[bertwert]

o, i'm not wrong, because i actually own and use a ff camera.

See post above.

What's so funny? This is very true.

...

Actually there is only one reason I am still arguing...

[osv]

THIS ISN'T ABOUT RESOLUTION, IT IS SENSOR/FILM SIZE!!!
Sorry for shouting...

get back to us when you've actually owned and used a ff camera...

Actually a good quality film shot can be around around 20mp, more than the a7S... (depends on film used and lens used)

"Based on the equivalence of 10.2 micron pixels with film, I estimate that a full-frame sensor with 8.3 megapixels would have resolution equal to 35mm film." Digital cameras vs. film, part 1

---------- Post added 12-16-15 at 05:52 PM ----------

...

Actually there is only one reason I am still arguing...

lol, i love that pic!

[bertwert]

I estimate that a full-frame sensor with 8.3 megapixels would have resolution equal to 35mm film

If I were to believe Ken Rockwell I would say film has a resolution of 87MP...

get back to us when you've actually owned and used a ff camera...

Doesn't change what a FF is...

[normhead]

bertwert, you're shooting fish in a barrel dude.

[osv]

If I were to believe Ken Rockwell I would say film has a resolution of 87MP...

normen koren ain't no ken rockwell, lol

you should stop embarrassing yourself with comments like that.

Doesn't change what a FF is...

it'll change your knowledge level of cameras, tho, and that's where the problem lies.

---------- Post added 12-16-15 at 06:12 PM ----------

bertwert, you're shooting fish in a barrel dude.

did we kiss and make up yet? would it help your hurt feelings if i gave you a pity like?

[jsherman999]

.... I've not seen one image anywhere on the net that suggests a cropped D810 image is in anyway better than a k3 image or D7200 image.

I don't think I've ever seen one image anywhere on the net that suggests a micro 4/3 image is in anyway better than an aps-c image of the same generation.

Thus, anyone who buys aps-c to get 'better quality' or 'more DOF control' or anything like that is full of hogwash. Show me! Hah! I knew it, ya can't!



Right, Norm? It's the exact same argument you made with FF vs. aps-c, why is it not true with aps-c vs. m43? Or is it suddenly true at that tier? At what magical breaking point, in your mind, does sensor size difference suddenly matter?

(By the way, you can check comparometer, dpreview, dxomark, any of the other sites that do offer comparison images if you really do want to compare. I think you do that from time to time when it suits you, or you remember, or you had enough sleep, whatever series of events leads to a break in the cognitive clouds.)


.

[RobA_Oz]

I don't think I've ever seen one image anywhere on the net that suggests a micro 4/3 image is in anyway better than an aps-c image of the same generation.

Thus, anyone who buys aps-c to get 'better quality' or 'more DOF control' or anything like that is full of hogwash. Show me! Hah! I knew it, ya can't!

Right, Norm? It's the exact same argument you made with FF vs. aps-c, why is it not true with aps-c vs. m43? Or is it suddenly true at that tier? At what magical breaking point, in your mind, does sensor size difference suddenly matter?

(By the way, you can check comparometer, dpreview, dxomark, any of the other sites that do offer comparison images if you really do want to compare. I think you do that from time to time when it suits you, or you remember, or you had enough sleep, whatever series of events leads to a break in the cognitive clouds.)
.

It strikes me that you're really talking about incremental improvements between formats. Obviously, the differences between APS-C and 35FF are going to be smaller (and, possibly, fewer) than those between FT and 35FF. You could take this argument all the way down to the 1/2.3" sensor or smaller (and some might, comparing the Q7 to the Q10), but the question that follows is: how do these differences matter to the individual? The answers are probably way more subjective than the hard measurement analyses will bear out.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not championing one format over any other, but I do note Norm's point, made in many places here, that those who do champion 35FF have a tendency to stop comparisons at that format, and ignore or minimise what differences there are with 645-crop and above. Not that I'm saying you're one of those, mind. In the film era, some people with 8x10s used to regard 35mm users with mild amusement, too. Others recognised that all formats had their place.

[Digitalis]

people with 8x10s used to regard 35mm users with mild amusement

Indeed, your 4 of 3rds, APS-C format users and your delusions of full frames, have your petty squabble.

8X10 photographers like me know who really wins in the quest for ultimate image quality. Compared to 8X10, you are all shooting crop formats.


Ebony 8X10 with Schneider 240mm f/5.6 Apo-Symmar. Kodak Tech-Pan 25 developed in Pyrocat HD - printed on pure platinum emulsion.

[Rondec]

I don't think I've ever seen one image anywhere on the net that suggests a micro 4/3 image is in anyway better than an aps-c image of the same generation.

Thus, anyone who buys aps-c to get 'better quality' or 'more DOF control' or anything like that is full of hogwash. Show me! Hah! I knew it, ya can't!



Right, Norm? It's the exact same argument you made with FF vs. aps-c, why is it not true with aps-c vs. m43? Or is it suddenly true at that tier? At what magical breaking point, in your mind, does sensor size difference suddenly matter?

(By the way, you can check comparometer, dpreview, dxomark, any of the other sites that do offer comparison images if you really do want to compare. I think you do that from time to time when it suits you, or you remember, or you had enough sleep, whatever series of events leads to a break in the cognitive clouds.)


.

But Jay, if you crop a D810 image to APS-C size, why would you expect it to perform better than a shot from an APS-C camera of current generation? I could be wrong, but that's all it seemed that Norm said. I don't know why you would shoot a D810 camera and just shoot it in crop mode all of the time, but if you did, you would expect to get D7000/K5 performance out of it. Which is fine, but certainly it is a bit of a waste of a pretty expensive camera. I would think your goal, as much as possible, would be to either shoot with longer focal lengths or get closer so that you didn't have to crop much if at all.

[kentster]

Looks like we have ventured down a couple rabbit holes




My approach will be this...stay with APSC until I have extra couple grand lying around and get the D810 or new Pentax. For me the 810/K1 would be the best of both worlds.


Monster IQ for Landscape..... option to crop it down when I have the bigger lens on. I now understand it's definitely not a need right now.... but still a big WANT.


Thanks all.

Indeed, your 4 of 3rds, APS-C format users and your delusions of full frames, have your petty squabble. 8X10 photographers like me know who really wins in the quest for ultimate image quality. Compared to 8X10, you are all shooting crop formats.

BAMMMM!!!!


Digitalis - sure have enjoyed your pics and knowledge in this forum!!!

[normhead]

But Jay, if you crop a D810 image to APS-C size, why would you expect it to perform better than a shot from an APS-C camera of current generation? I could be wrong, but that's all it seemed that Norm said. I don't know why you would shoot a D810 camera and just shoot it in crop mode all of the time, but if you did, you would expect to get D7000/K5 performance out of it. Which is fine, but certainly it is a bit of a waste of a pretty expensive camera. I would think your goal, as much as possible, would be to either shoot with longer focal lengths or get closer so that you didn't have to crop much if at all.

Jay is so happy to get on my case, he doesn't actually understand the context of my comments. The guy is so eager to prove himself some kind of knowledge god he can't even be bothered to read the thread. That's why he's on my ignore list. But thanks for alerting me to his side swipe. What a loser.

Jay, you are not actually participating in a conversation, you're just carrying out your usual personal attacks on someone else who isn't even listening to you. I mean, how cowardly is that? You come on here and spout your ignorance, at someone who probably isn't going to respond because he doesn't even know what you're saying unless someone quotes you. It's like beating on people who have their back turned. But totally appropriate to a person such as yourself. Nothin is beneath you as far as I can tell.

What a piece of work.

I'm doing my best to just stay out of your way dude, but you make it difficult.

Now, back to the conversation... post an image where a D810 taken in crop image is better than an 24 MP APS_c image, because that's what we were talking about, or shut your yap.

I'm doing my best to stay out of your way. Man up and reciprocate. If I never hear another word you speak, I'll be a happy man.

[bertwert]

bertwert, you're shooting fish in a barrel dude.

I've given up now, but something is still wrong on the internet

[TedH42]

I've given up now, but something is still wrong on the internet

You're giving up way too soon. A few more posts, and the wrong will be righted. Then we'll all be safe and happy again.