Price of K1 (FF)

kooks · 12-22-2015, 06:04 PM

People who wanted a $3000+ full frame camera already have it.. they have D810s, 5Dmk3s, and A7Riis .. WHY will Pentax try to get this people if they are already gone??..

As i see it, what Ricoh is doing with the K3, K3ii prices is to grow their high end APS-C clients, this people are most likely going to jump to FF sometime in the future (especially with a good price), but to be honest, i cant see a lot of K3 users getting a $3000 camera + getting some lenses, as same as i cant not see a D810 user selling their Nikkor lenses and cameras just in order to try the new Pentax body.

**monochrome** · 12-22-2015, 06:14 PM - **1 Like**

Pentax has declared this is to be a professional camera. Pricing decision might be less oriented to consumer acceptance than to professionals, thus higher than you want, and unit sales objectives might be significantly lower than you expect.

kooks · 12-22-2015, 06:49 PM

The question here is.. how many professionals will buy the Pentax? as far as we know there are just a few people that shoot with Pentax in a professional way. Most professionals are already shooting with FF cameras, will they sell all their equipment in order to try the Pentax camera? mmmm.. will they invest in 2 camera systems? mmmm doubt it. The sad true is that Pentax dont have that many professional shooters because most pros look for FF cameras ( and well, we dont have it yet ).

IMO ( this is just me ) i'll better release something between $2000 and $2400 in order to grow their users FF base, after this is done, they will be able to release a $3000+ camera, but not until they have enough users to buy it.

But once again.. this are just opinions.. we dont know nothing.. we dont even know the sensor MP.

**monochrome** · 12-22-2015, 07:09 PM - **1 Like**

Opinion is what it is. All the camera needs to attract professionals is something other pro cameras don't have.

They don't need to build market share with this camera. They don't even need to make a profit (they will) with this camera. That will happen down the road. They need to establish their chops.

Since professionals largely lease their equipment, changing systems isn't as big a deal as consumers think it is. Professionals who shoot things that don't move fast might be very attracted to Pentax.

RonHendriks1966 · 12-23-2015, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

They don't need to build market share with this camera. They don't even need to make a profit (they will) with this camera. That will happen down the road. They need to establish their chops.

Since professionals largely lease their equipment, changing systems isn't as big a deal as consumers think it is. Professionals who shoot things that don't move fast might be very attracted to Pentax.

I see some things different. I think gaining marketshare is very important for Pentax, since they hit the bottom of the bunch. I also think that Ricoh wants their camera division to make a profit and that the full-frame has to contributie to this.

For pro's working for a large photo agency things are different. But to get in you need to offer a lot. So this small full frame set that Pentax can offer in 2016, one camera with a few lenses, won't open the Door to those agency's.

On februari 1th we will see new report for the current financial report from Ricoh. Lets see what that brings and how deep the dive is.

Kenspo repeatetly says that this camera is aimt at pro's. And everyone is talking about 36 megapixels. The competition in this segment offers camera's over 3000 $€. I don't see this camera selling well if this is True.

Kunzite · 12-23-2015, 03:30 AM

I agree with monochrome: Ricoh Imaging doesn't need to build market share (as in: a significant increase in sales volume) with this camera; they should, and likely will build profit with it. It will help, but it doesn't have to support the company by itself - there are other products, too

On February 1st we will see a new financial report, for the quarter ending 31 December. It will obviously not be influenced by a camera which will be announced two months later, and I fail to see the relevance.
But it's interesting to see that you already decided it's a "dip"

RonHendriks1966 · 12-23-2015, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

On February 1st we will see a new financial report, for the quarter ending 31 December. It will obviously not be influenced by a camera which will be announced two months later, and I fail to see the relevance.

Not completely true. Ofcourse no sales of the camera in this quarter. But a lot of costs in this quarter. Some R&D costs for the K-1 and the 70-200mm. Starting the production for the camera on full load as reported probably also brings costs to the factory. Maybe Sony even wants the sensormodules they deliver for the K-1 paid as shipped? So I expect sales are on a quarterly low for 2015, more people waiting for the spring debut, while costs are uppping to maybe a quarterly high for 2015.

Kenntak · 12-23-2015, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by kooks

The question here is.. how many professionals will buy the Pentax? as far as we know there are just a few people that shoot with Pentax in a professional way. Most professionals are already shooting with FF cameras, will they sell all their equipment in order to try the Pentax camera? mmmm.. will they invest in 2 camera systems? mmmm doubt it. The sad true is that Pentax dont have that many professional shooters because most pros look for FF cameras ( and well, we dont have it yet ).

IMO ( this is just me ) i'll better release something between $2000 and $2400 in order to grow their users FF base, after this is done, they will be able to release a $3000+ camera, but not until they have enough users to buy it.

But once again.. this are just opinions.. we dont know nothing.. we dont even know the sensor MP.

Doesn't it depend on the country? I would think a Pentax FF would do well in Japan with professionals.

Kunzite · 12-23-2015, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Not completely true. Ofcourse no sales of the camera in this quarter. But a lot of costs in this quarter. Some R&D costs for the K-1 and the 70-200mm. Starting the production for the camera on full load as reported probably also brings costs to the factory. Maybe Sony even wants the sensormodules they deliver for the K-1 paid as shipped? So I expect sales are on a quarterly low for 2015, more people waiting for the spring debut, while costs are uppping to maybe a quarterly high for 2015.

This is nitpicking, and actually incorrect: you should not consider only the "investment" effect of a product. Do you consider investing on a new product as a "dip"? Is it something negative, to be afraid of?

As for how many are waiting for the spring debut, FF is still niche. At most we're talking about a temporary setback which will pay off next year, no doom&gloom here.

Besides, you will not have the kind of detailed information you're referring to, but just some data for the entire Other group, and at most a phrase or two mentioning cameras.

RonHendriks1966 · 12-23-2015, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

This is nitpicking, and actually incorrect: you should not consider only the "investment" effect of a product. Do you consider investing on a new product as a "dip"? Is it something negative, to be afraid of?

Well you need the Rolling cash to start. You just can't call Ricoh and say.....We doing something New, could you just send a check to balance our cashflow? But no worry's, the quarter is almost finished.

Kunzite · 12-23-2015, 10:27 AM

Uhh... it doesn't work that way. And I'm not worried at all (despite your efforts).

cfraz · 12-23-2015, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well you need the Rolling cash to start. You just can't call Ricoh and say.....We doing something New, could you just send a check to balance our cashflow? But no worry's, the quarter is almost finished.

It's clear that Ricoh has invested in manufacturing infrastructure (e.g. new lens coating equipment) but I strongly suspect they expect the Imaging division to fund new product development out of division revenue. Don't worry, they've got this figured out. Otherwise there wouldn't be a K-3, or a 645Z or a 150-450.

As to the financial reports, the most unreasonable pessimists will look at the numbers in the "Other" category and declare with certainty that the Pentax brand is mostly - if not completely - dead.

Meanwhile, the most unreasonable optimists will look at the same numbers and declare with certainty that Pentax has nothing but clear sailing ahead.l

As usual, both groups will be well-represented on PF. And as usual, both groups will be utterly full of crap.

Meanwhile, life (and Pentax) will go on.

**Kerrowdown** · 12-23-2015, 01:14 PM

Mine 2400 was in Pounds Sterling before I read the $ bit, so that's actually then US $3568.6978.

bertwert · 12-23-2015, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Kerrowdown

Mine 2400 was in Pounds Sterling before I read the $ bit, so that's actually then US $3568.6978.

That is quite expensive...

**Kerrowdown** · 12-23-2015, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by bertwert

That is quite expensive...

Aye but I'm needing extras... grip, extra batteries and a micro prism split screen etc.

View Poll Results: What will be the initial street price?
below 1800	17	6.80%
2000	27	10.80%
2200	53	21.20%
2400	68	27.20%
2600	40	16.00%
2800	31	12.40%
3000	6	2.40%
above 3000	8	3.20%
Voters: 250. You may not vote on this poll

12-23-2015, 03:30 AM	#36
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I agree with monochrome: Ricoh Imaging doesn't need to build market share (as in: a significant increase in sales volume) with this camera; they should, and likely will build profit with it. It will help, but it doesn't have to support the company by itself - there are other products, too On February 1st we will see a new financial report, for the quarter ending 31 December. It will obviously not be influenced by a camera which will be announced two months later, and I fail to see the relevance. But it's interesting to see that you already decided it's a "dip" Last edited by Kunzite; 12-23-2015 at 03:36 AM.

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12-22-2015, 06:04 PM	#31
kooks Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: San José, Costa Rica Photos: Albums Posts: 794	People who wanted a $3000+ full frame camera already have it.. they have D810s, 5Dmk3s, and A7Riis .. WHY will Pentax try to get this people if they are already gone??.. As i see it, what Ricoh is doing with the K3, K3ii prices is to grow their high end APS-C clients, this people are most likely going to jump to FF sometime in the future (especially with a good price), but to be honest, i cant see a lot of K3 users getting a $3000 camera + getting some lenses, as same as i cant not see a D810 user selling their Nikkor lenses and cameras just in order to try the new Pentax body.

12-22-2015, 06:14 PM - 1 Like	#32
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Pentax has declared this is to be a professional camera. Pricing decision might be less oriented to consumer acceptance than to professionals, thus higher than you want, and unit sales objectives might be significantly lower than you expect.

12-22-2015, 06:49 PM	#33
kooks Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: San José, Costa Rica Photos: Albums Posts: 794	The question here is.. how many professionals will buy the Pentax? as far as we know there are just a few people that shoot with Pentax in a professional way. Most professionals are already shooting with FF cameras, will they sell all their equipment in order to try the Pentax camera? mmmm.. will they invest in 2 camera systems? mmmm doubt it. The sad true is that Pentax dont have that many professional shooters because most pros look for FF cameras ( and well, we dont have it yet ). IMO ( this is just me ) i'll better release something between $2000 and $2400 in order to grow their users FF base, after this is done, they will be able to release a $3000+ camera, but not until they have enough users to buy it. But once again.. this are just opinions.. we dont know nothing.. we dont even know the sensor MP.

12-22-2015, 07:09 PM - 1 Like	#34
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Opinion is what it is. All the camera needs to attract professionals is something other pro cameras don't have. They don't need to build market share with this camera. They don't even need to make a profit (they will) with this camera. That will happen down the road. They need to establish their chops. Since professionals largely lease their equipment, changing systems isn't as big a deal as consumers think it is. Professionals who shoot things that don't move fast might be very attracted to Pentax.

12-23-2015, 02:27 AM	#35
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by monochrome They don't need to build market share with this camera. They don't even need to make a profit (they will) with this camera. That will happen down the road. They need to establish their chops. Since professionals largely lease their equipment, changing systems isn't as big a deal as consumers think it is. Professionals who shoot things that don't move fast might be very attracted to Pentax. I see some things different. I think gaining marketshare is very important for Pentax, since they hit the bottom of the bunch. I also think that Ricoh wants their camera division to make a profit and that the full-frame has to contributie to this. For pro's working for a large photo agency things are different. But to get in you need to offer a lot. So this small full frame set that Pentax can offer in 2016, one camera with a few lenses, won't open the Door to those agency's. On februari 1th we will see new report for the current financial report from Ricoh. Lets see what that brings and how deep the dive is. Kenspo repeatetly says that this camera is aimt at pro's. And everyone is talking about 36 megapixels. The competition in this segment offers camera's over 3000 $€. I don't see this camera selling well if this is True.

12-23-2015, 06:53 AM	#37
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Kunzite On February 1st we will see a new financial report, for the quarter ending 31 December. It will obviously not be influenced by a camera which will be announced two months later, and I fail to see the relevance. Not completely true. Ofcourse no sales of the camera in this quarter. But a lot of costs in this quarter. Some R&D costs for the K-1 and the 70-200mm. Starting the production for the camera on full load as reported probably also brings costs to the factory. Maybe Sony even wants the sensormodules they deliver for the K-1 paid as shipped? So I expect sales are on a quarterly low for 2015, more people waiting for the spring debut, while costs are uppping to maybe a quarterly high for 2015.

12-23-2015, 07:37 AM	#38
Kenntak Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 198	Originally posted by kooks The question here is.. how many professionals will buy the Pentax? as far as we know there are just a few people that shoot with Pentax in a professional way. Most professionals are already shooting with FF cameras, will they sell all their equipment in order to try the Pentax camera? mmmm.. will they invest in 2 camera systems? mmmm doubt it. The sad true is that Pentax dont have that many professional shooters because most pros look for FF cameras ( and well, we dont have it yet ). IMO ( this is just me ) i'll better release something between $2000 and $2400 in order to grow their users FF base, after this is done, they will be able to release a $3000+ camera, but not until they have enough users to buy it. But once again.. this are just opinions.. we dont know nothing.. we dont even know the sensor MP. Doesn't it depend on the country? I would think a Pentax FF would do well in Japan with professionals.

12-23-2015, 08:47 AM	#39
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Not completely true. Ofcourse no sales of the camera in this quarter. But a lot of costs in this quarter. Some R&D costs for the K-1 and the 70-200mm. Starting the production for the camera on full load as reported probably also brings costs to the factory. Maybe Sony even wants the sensormodules they deliver for the K-1 paid as shipped? So I expect sales are on a quarterly low for 2015, more people waiting for the spring debut, while costs are uppping to maybe a quarterly high for 2015. This is nitpicking, and actually incorrect: you should not consider only the "investment" effect of a product. Do you consider investing on a new product as a "dip"? Is it something negative, to be afraid of? As for how many are waiting for the spring debut, FF is still niche. At most we're talking about a temporary setback which will pay off next year, no doom&gloom here. Besides, you will not have the kind of detailed information you're referring to, but just some data for the entire Other group, and at most a phrase or two mentioning cameras.

12-23-2015, 09:47 AM	#40
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Kunzite This is nitpicking, and actually incorrect: you should not consider only the "investment" effect of a product. Do you consider investing on a new product as a "dip"? Is it something negative, to be afraid of? Well you need the Rolling cash to start. You just can't call Ricoh and say.....We doing something New, could you just send a check to balance our cashflow? But no worry's, the quarter is almost finished.

12-23-2015, 10:27 AM	#41
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Uhh... it doesn't work that way. And I'm not worried at all (despite your efforts).

12-23-2015, 10:42 AM	#42
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well you need the Rolling cash to start. You just can't call Ricoh and say.....We doing something New, could you just send a check to balance our cashflow? But no worry's, the quarter is almost finished. It's clear that Ricoh has invested in manufacturing infrastructure (e.g. new lens coating equipment) but I strongly suspect they expect the Imaging division to fund new product development out of division revenue. Don't worry, they've got this figured out. Otherwise there wouldn't be a K-3, or a 645Z or a 150-450. As to the financial reports, the most unreasonable pessimists will look at the numbers in the "Other" category and declare with certainty that the Pentax brand is mostly - if not completely - dead. Meanwhile, the most unreasonable optimists will look at the same numbers and declare with certainty that Pentax has nothing but clear sailing ahead.l As usual, both groups will be well-represented on PF. And as usual, both groups will be utterly full of crap. Meanwhile, life (and Pentax) will go on.

12-23-2015, 01:14 PM	#43
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,819	Mine 2400 was in Pounds Sterling before I read the $ bit, so that's actually then US $3568.6978.

12-23-2015, 01:15 PM	#44
bertwert Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Golden, BC Posts: 15,173	Originally posted by Kerrowdown Mine 2400 was in Pounds Sterling before I read the $ bit, so that's actually then US $3568.6978. That is quite expensive...

12-23-2015, 01:22 PM	#45
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,819	Originally posted by bertwert That is quite expensive... Aye but I'm needing extras... grip, extra batteries and a micro prism split screen etc.