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12-26-2015, 07:40 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
I think so...
can't remember what it was now...
You're just messin' with us. We're way to old to fall for that.

12-27-2015, 04:06 AM   #47
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I think we can say pretty assuredly a few things. First of all, Pentax is going to price this camera comparably to similarly specified cameras. If it comes out with similarly specs to the D750, then a 2000-ish price is reasonable, but if it comes out with D810-ish specs then they will be pricing it higher. Second, Pentax won't leave money on the table. Their release price won't be cheap and those Pentaxians who "have to have full frame" will pay a higher price than it will be available for six months later.

Pentax isn't going to try to sell a million of these. I'm sure they have their market calculations based on a lot lower number.

If I were to guess release price, it would be upper 2000s -- maybe 2700 dollars. That seems to be the street price for the D810 right now and while the MSRP for the D810 is higher, it doesn't seem like Nikon has gotten that for a long while.
12-27-2015, 08:30 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think we can say pretty assuredly a few things. First of all, Pentax is going to price this camera comparably to similarly specified cameras. If it comes out with similarly specs to the D750, then a 2000-ish price is reasonable, but if it comes out with D810-ish specs then they will be pricing it higher. Second, Pentax won't leave money on the table. Their release price won't be cheap and those Pentaxians who "have to have full frame" will pay a higher price than it will be available for six months later.

Pentax isn't going to try to sell a million of these. I'm sure they have their market calculations based on a lot lower number.

If I were to guess release price, it would be upper 2000s -- maybe 2700 dollars. That seems to be the street price for the D810 right now and while the MSRP for the D810 is higher, it doesn't seem like Nikon has gotten that for a long while.
I agree with your logic for pricing. Let's not forget that historically Pentax has had a value proposition that consistently places their prices below the competition with a good margin. So my guess is still mid-to-low $2K range.

Is it possible that the delays are due to Pentax wanting to make enough of them anticipating the initial surge in demand?

Question to forum members. How many FF cameras do you think Pentax can (will) sell in the US?
12-27-2015, 09:47 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
I agree with your logic for pricing. Let's not forget that historically Pentax has had a value proposition that consistently places their prices below the competition with a good margin. So my guess is still mid-to-low $2K range.

Is it possible that the delays are due to Pentax wanting to make enough of them anticipating the initial surge in demand?

Question to forum members. How many FF cameras do you think Pentax can (will) sell in the US?
Well the dslr market in the USA is on year basis now around 2.5 million units. Around 10 % is maybe full frame (has that number ever grow, or are they just off to Sony's mirrorless full frame A7-series?), so that is 250.000 units. Pentax has a marketshare of around 2 % in the USA. So they could shipp less then 500 units each month. But this is also on average, and not calculating in people waiting for it to come and maybe buying in early and thus having an increased salesnumber for severaL months.

I don't think that production capacity is a problem in the delay. At least not a physics thing in the way of actual having hands and space to produce the K-1.


This could well be a lineair thing. So at 2000$ you can ship 500 units each month and at 3000$ you go down to 50 units a month.


Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 12-27-2015 at 10:21 AM.
12-27-2015, 11:06 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
Question to forum members. How many FF cameras do you think Pentax can (will) sell in the US?
This will depend A LOT on the price and the marketing that they do in order to sell the camera. IMO in this case i will like to see some volume sales, and this is why the price plays a big role, Pentax is releasing new lenses and they gotta sell that lenses too, so as many people buy the FF camera, more chances are that this people will eventually get at least one of the new lenses. Some people think that Ricoh are not looking to increase their market share, IMO they are looking for that.. i cant recall what was the interview that they said someting about this, they said that they want to be in the top 3 camera business, and that to me is a clear sign that they want to grow. Price gotta be smart, it cant be too low ( because all the expenses that having a HQ product needs ), but it cant be to high that just a few actual Pentax users could reach, the idea of a camera is to sell it at the release price for as long as its possible, not to wait until it comes down.
12-27-2015, 11:25 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You're just messin' with us. We're way to old to fall for that.
I'm sure I'm not messing with you.
If I could only remember where I read it
Maybe it was NCN
12-27-2015, 01:20 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well the dslr market in the USA is on year basis now around 2.5 million units. Around 10 % is maybe full frame (has that number ever grow, or are they just off to Sony's mirrorless full frame A7-series?), so that is 250.000 units. Pentax has a marketshare of around 2 % in the USA. So they could shipp less then 500 units each month. But this is also on average, and not calculating in people waiting for it to come and maybe buying in early and thus having an increased salesnumber for severaL months.

I don't think that production capacity is a problem in the delay. At least not a physics thing in the way of actual having hands and space to produce the K-1.


This could well be a lineair thing. So at 2000$ you can ship 500 units each month and at 3000$ you go down to 50 units a month.
I see lots of assumptions here, the worst of which being that Pentax has the same product structure as the other camera makers.
Besides, that's just the U.S. market If you're not willing to buy quality Pentax products, don't worry, we are.
12-27-2015, 01:38 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I see lots of assumptions here, the worst of which being that Pentax has the same product structure as the other camera makers.
Besides, that's just the U.S. market If you're not willing to buy quality Pentax products, don't worry, we are.
How would you see a Pentax dslr different from Nikon and Canon? The sensor is full frame, so it is different in many way's to aps-c. It's a dslr, so different in many ways to mirrorless. So the direct competition (Besides from current Pentax user base upgrading to FF) to attract new users to the k-mount are the offerings in full frame from Nikon and Canon, in my eyes.


You can always try to give an answer to the question on how many to sell.

12-27-2015, 05:42 PM   #54
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I think indeed that the price/features war with upcoming FF cameras is going to be very interesting.. prices in general are going down and technology is changing faster and faster.

Last edited by kooks; 12-28-2015 at 01:37 AM.
12-27-2015, 08:21 PM   #55
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Pentax's primary market for this new body is going to be current Pentax users and it will be priced accordingly. You guys have been panting for a FF and you are going to pay for it. I think this will be a high end body and you will see a lower price point body down the road.
12-28-2015, 03:47 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
How would you see a Pentax dslr different from Nikon and Canon? The sensor is full frame, so it is different in many way's to aps-c. It's a dslr, so different in many ways to mirrorless. So the direct competition (Besides from current Pentax user base upgrading to FF) to attract new users to the k-mount are the offerings in full frame from Nikon and Canon, in my eyes.


You can always try to give an answer to the question on how many to sell.
I think the answer is that it will be better than Canon in that it has a Sony sensor and has better dynamic range and probably resolution. It will have certain features that Nikon doesn't have -- in body image stabilization, astro tracer, sensor composition shift and pixel shift images. As to whether or not it attracts new users, it probably has more to do with the glass that Pentax can come up with than with a specific camera body's features.
12-28-2015, 08:48 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think the answer is that it will be better than Canon in that it has a Sony sensor and has better dynamic range and probably resolution. It will have certain features that Nikon doesn't have -- in body image stabilization, astro tracer, sensor composition shift and pixel shift images. As to whether or not it attracts new users, it probably has more to do with the glass that Pentax can come up with than with a specific camera body's features.
Pentax cannot give us a better Canon nor a better Sony. Actually the 5D Mark IV and the Nikon D5 are on their way and Sony is preparing 7 new lenses for 2016. The K1 will be born dead and will probably not even make it in the news or the press releases. So please stop the wishful thinking.

BTW - that is why Ricoh made the right choice and *finally* filed a patent for a new hybrid sensor:

Ricoh / Pentax Working on Hybrid Sensor « NEW CAMERA
QuoteQuote:
Ricoh is working on Hybrid phase detect sensor, that will do Phase AF too by the help of active phase AF pixels. The new innovation will sure help Pentax / Ricoh to enable high speed AF during vidoe and live view-mode.

Published 2015.12.21
Filing date 2014.6.4
Ricoh patents
The image plane phase difference AF
3 or more subpixels per pixel
Three or more of the spectral sensitivity element in one pixel
With respect to adjacent pixels, it will maintain the symmetry
Since generating three colors from one pixel can be reduce false color

The highlighted text implies they are searching for an alternative to the Bayer pattern, this thing is *huge*!

Now if the upgraded version K1 (Mark II) features this sensor Pentax will be back in the game with Sony, Nikon and Canon. Then we can speak about the pricing and compare to the established brands.
12-28-2015, 08:55 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by dreamfoto Quote
Pentax cannot give us a better Canon nor a better Sony. Actually the 5D Mark IV and the Nikon D5 are on their way and Sony is preparing 7 new lenses for 2016. The K1 will be born dead and will probably not even make it in the news or the press releases. So please stop the wishful thinking.

BTW - that is why Ricoh made the right choice and *finally* filed a patent for a new hybrid sensor:

Ricoh / Pentax Working on Hybrid Sensor « NEW CAMERA



The highlighted text implies they are searching for an alternative to the Bayer pattern, this thing is *huge*!

Now if the upgraded version K1 (Mark II) features this sensor Pentax will be back in the game with Sony, Nikon and Canon. Then we can speak about the pricing and compare to the established brands.
Ricoh doesn't own any sensor fabs. I am sure that Sony will tweak their own sensors in accordance with Ricoh's plans, as long as Ricoh is willing to pay for this (I think Nikon does this), but certainly the idea of them creating their own sensor from scratch is not likely.
12-28-2015, 09:59 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by dreamfoto Quote
Pentax cannot give us a better Canon nor a better Sony. Actually the 5D Mark IV and the Nikon D5 are on their way and Sony is preparing 7 new lenses for 2016. The K1 will be born dead and will probably not even make it in the news or the press releases. So please stop the wishful thinking.
Do you even realize that press releases are published by the camera makers? You just claimed that Ricoh Imaging won't bother publishing a press release for the K-1
12-28-2015, 10:34 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Ricoh doesn't own any sensor fabs. I am sure that Sony will tweak their own sensors in accordance with Ricoh's plans, as long as Ricoh is willing to pay for this (I think Nikon does this), but certainly the idea of them creating their own sensor from scratch is not likely.
If Ricoh plans to combine 4 sub-pixels into one pixel it would mean there are 80+ MP sensors on the horizon. Why not, my 4 year old Nokia pv808 has 41MP in a smallish smart phone sized sensor, it also employs special algorithm to combine few pixels into one bigger pixel to obtain more accurate colours. Let me tell you - it works! So I am personally convinced this is the future of the digital photography and I think at that point there will be a clear split between artistic 100+MP and sports/journalist photography - 20MP in terms of technologies involved and processing algorithms.

Pentax 645 is already good for landscape and portraiture (art) so if Ricoh stays in the same segment and it can reposition itself in the market by employing this new sensor in the new camera models. I think that ill be great, actually I suspected Ricoh will do exactly that and even exchanged private messages with some members suggesting something like that will happen, so I take it as a confirmation. And there lies probably the silver lining
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