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12-31-2015, 09:56 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by nomadkng Quote
This is where I'm sitting at as well. I almost switched to Nikon 3 years ago because I was fed up with poor AF from the K5 and I NEED FF. But the K3 came out and offered a small sliver of light. Combined with all I have invested in K-mount glass, I decided it could tide me over until the FF body came out. Now the K1 is almost here, but if it doesn't spec to a D810, it's probably time to go. I don't want an entry level FF, that almost seems like an oxymoron and it would be a downgrade in many ways from the K3. And that's all your going to get for these dreams of sub 1500 pricing.

I'm already nervous based on the "leaked" specs of ONLY 27 AF points, but we'll see. Maybe Pentax can do with 27 with Nikon can do with 51. It will be all about the predictive algorithms. I'm also sad the base iso is 100 and not 50 or even 64 like the D810. For landscape work, low native iso is great stuff.

But I guess we'll know in a couple months. I just can't see how in any universe trying to convert anyone with a bargain basement priced full frame is going to be a sound tactic. There's too many pro/semi-pro Pentaxians who have held out this long for a FF that would jump ship if their needs aren't met by this first release, and I think that number would be larger than any Canikon converts. And as Norm mentioned, many already have. You aren't going to get them BACK either with a 1500 FF. That's the best thing about Pentax, they have always seemed to try and take care of their own first. I'm hoping that philosophy is continued with the K1.
I agree.

01-01-2016, 12:32 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by VoiceOfReason Quote
I probably wouldn't buy a 24mp FF, mainly because i already have a good 24mp camera. If I buy FF I will go 36 or 42 mp.
That is ok.. but lets remember that more MP doesnt mean better IQ.. and some people (including me) what are looking in a FF is better lowlight performance, better IQ, and shallow DoF.. so MP in many cases are not that important unless you plan to print BIG.. but as we all said, everything looks like this is not the case of the K1, wich eventually will have 36 or 42mp.. The 24mp camera is just an entry level idea that perhaps in the future Pentax could think about releasing.. just to fill that "entry level" gap that could be missed.

Last edited by kooks; 01-01-2016 at 01:12 AM.
01-01-2016, 09:29 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
That is ok.. but lets remember that more MP doesnt mean better IQ.. and some people (including me) what are looking in a FF is better lowlight performance, better IQ, and shallow DoF.. so MP in many cases are not that important unless you plan to print BIG.. but as we all said, everything looks like this is not the case of the K1, wich eventually will have 36 or 42mp.. The 24mp camera is just an entry level idea that perhaps in the future Pentax could think about releasing.. just to fill that "entry level" gap that could be missed.
Now that K3II is hovering below $700, I can see an entry level (24MP) FF for $1,299-1,499 and a higher end body, say 36-42MP for $1,899-2,399. That kind of pricing will make a lot of current Pentaxians happy.

As to advantages over my current K3 (which I love), I am looking for extra resolution for large prints and an always desired better dynamic range. For my applications, since I shoot nature and mostly at 100 ISO, high ISO performance is not as important as noise free shadows.
01-01-2016, 11:40 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
Now that K3II is hovering below $700, I can see an entry level (24MP) FF for $1,299-1,499 and a higher end body, say 36-42MP for $1,899-2,399. That kind of pricing will make a lot of current Pentaxians happy.
Yes.. actually i think that we wont see that many $1000+ APS-C cameras anymore unless they are extraordianry.. A7ii is around $1700, D610 around $1500, and even lower the 6D is around $1300+/- ( all Amazon prices )... it could eventually put a basic Pentax FF at around that prices.. re-using the K1 knowledge but doing it simple ( for example no GPS, no crop mode, no wifi, a 24mp sensor, etc ), and the K1 at around $2400/$2600 +/- ... dont know.. this are just ideas that could eventually happen at some point.


Last edited by kooks; 01-01-2016 at 11:53 AM.
01-01-2016, 11:46 AM   #80
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I want more space for cropping if needed. More dynamic range too.
01-01-2016, 11:51 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
The 24mp camera is just an entry level idea that perhaps in the future Pentax could think about releasing.. just to fill that "entry level" gap that could be missed.
I think time will erase this idea. The 36mp FF will come out in 2016 sometime, hopefully. So how long after that before a second model could be developed? 2 years? At least I would think. Ricoh will want to gain all the profit they can from the K-1 before introducing a lower price option. So 2018 or maybe 2019 for the cheap FF. At that time new sensors will have eclipsed the current offers and maybe 36mp is now entry level. 24mp will be ancient history relegated to cell phones.
01-01-2016, 12:42 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I think time will erase this idea. The 36mp FF will come out in 2016 sometime, hopefully. So how long after that before a second model could be developed? 2 years? At least I would think. Ricoh will want to gain all the profit they can from the K-1 before introducing a lower price option. So 2018 or maybe 2019 for the cheap FF. At that time new sensors will have eclipsed the current offers and maybe 36mp is now entry level. 24mp will be ancient history relegated to cell phones.
Yes.. maybe 36 will be the "standard" in the upcoming years. I was talking about 24mp as todays "basic" camera, but in 2 or 3 years.. that sensors might not longer be used in new models.. but lets also remember that a camera is not only the sensor, a basic FF camera can be release using the same sensor, but without many of the other features that the Pro level has, and that reduces the cost of developing a "new" model.

By the way, anybody have an idea of what are the models that give more profit to Canikons??
01-01-2016, 01:25 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
Now that K3II is hovering below $700, I can see an entry level (24MP) FF for $1,299-1,499 and a higher end body, say 36-42MP for $1,899-2,399. That kind of pricing will make a lot of current Pentaxians happy.

As to advantages over my current K3 (which I love), I am looking for extra resolution for large prints and an always desired better dynamic range. For my applications, since I shoot nature and mostly at 100 ISO, high ISO performance is not as important as noise free shadows.
IMHO, whether or not Ricoh is going to release a cheaper FF model, it is important that the first one to be as best as it can be among the FF DSLR models; so people (potential buyers) would have an idea of what Ricoh/Pentax can deliver. And as some of you suggested, I agree that Ricoh can release a cheaper FF model as they see fit to fill the price gaps between the high-end APS-C (aka k-3 variants) and high-end FF (aka k-1 variants) models.

01-01-2016, 01:39 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by zzeitg Quote
I truly hope that $2400 won't turn into €2700 (or even more) in Europe. I'm fed up with having to pay this special European overcharge.
I think we will certainly pay out the wazoo here in Europe. No doubt about it.
01-01-2016, 01:53 PM - 2 Likes   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
a basic FF camera can be release using the same sensor, but without many of the other features that the Pro level has, and that reduces the cost of developing a "new" model.
It also pulls sales away from the higher end, and likely more profitable model. For that reason alone I seriously doubt it will happen for a very long time.
  • Canon/Nikon have the volume and user base to support multiple FF models. Pentax does not.
  • Canon/Nikon have the lens catalog of both f/2.8 and f/4 lenses to support both a high and low end FF model. Pentax does not.
  • Canon/Nikon have no unfulfilled pent up demand for FF so they need additional models to attract more people. Pentax has enormous pent up demand and has no need of a lower end model to attract users at this time.
01-01-2016, 02:51 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
It also pulls sales away from the higher end, and likely more profitable model. For that reason alone I seriously doubt it will happen for a very long time.
  • Canon/Nikon have the volume and user base to support multiple FF models. Pentax does not.
  • Canon/Nikon have the lens catalog of both f/2.8 and f/4 lenses to support both a high and low end FF model. Pentax does not.
  • Canon/Nikon have no unfulfilled pent up demand for FF so they need additional models to attract more people. Pentax has enormous pent up demand and has no need of a lower end model to attract users at this time.
I'm not sure about the amount. For a $3000+ model I don't see to many customer's. I even think that if the FF would be 3500$ then thè unit sale will be lower then for 645Z. Simply because the gap to the next level is getting smaller and the number of people who can make the step from K-3ii to K-1 is very small.
01-01-2016, 03:05 PM   #87
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There are less than 2 months until the official announcement; IMHO you should better wait and see, rather than making up random prices
01-01-2016, 03:14 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I'm not sure about the amount. For a $3000+ model I don't see to many customer's. I even think that if the FF would be 3500$ then thè unit sale will be lower then for 645Z. Simply because the gap to the next level is getting smaller and the number of people who can make the step from K-3ii to K-1 is very small.
+1 .. very very very.. few actual K5's/K3/K3ii users will buy a $3000+ camera.. why would they? they had the D810's, 5Dmk3's, A7Rii's. models since a long time with GREAT glass and a good 2nd hand market. IMO that price is not for actual Pentax users, it could be eventually in a future really high end model, but IMO they fist need to build a users base so they can sell them the $3000+ model.. without this users base its going to be extremly hard to sell a camera like that.
01-01-2016, 03:30 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I'm not sure about the amount. For a $3000+ model I don't see to many customer's. I even think that if the FF would be 3500$ then thè unit sale will be lower then for 645Z. Simply because the gap to the next level is getting smaller and the number of people who can make the step from K-3ii to K-1 is very small.
I think you are wrong on this Ron. Perhaps I should have said "relatively enormous pent up demand". The numbers will be much smaller (of course) than Canon/Nikon. But there is a large demand for a Pentax FF camera and there is no substitute. When Nikon releases a new FF their users can look at the model they have, used ones of other models and the new one just released and make a choice. For Pentax there is no choice. How soon the demand will fall off I do not know but I suspect for the first few months there will be a waiting list unless you pre-order.

QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
+1 .. very very very.. few actual K5's/K3/K3ii users will buy a $3000+ camera.. why would they? they had the D810's, 5Dmk3's, A7Rii's. models since a long time with GREAT glass and a good 2nd hand market. IMO that price is not for actual Pentax users
We all get that a $3,000 camera is not for you, you say that over and over. But you are not the whole market. I strongly suspect Ricoh will have a hard time keeping up for at least the first 2 maybe 3 months. There are lot's of markets for this camera. I know many, many photographers that shot Pentax years ago and still have their film gear. Dropping $3,000 on a new body to use those old lenses is not really all that much of an expense to many people. It is to me, and many others of course, but we are not the target market.
01-01-2016, 03:40 PM   #90
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We will see that soon enough. I see a longer list of buyers for sub2500. A very short list for 3500plus. But ofcourse you can't make the same camera with those price tags, they are very different.
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