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01-01-2016, 03:53 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
We will see that soon enough. I see a longer list of buyers for sub2500. A very short list for 3500plus. But ofcourse you can't make the same camera with those price tags, they are very different.
Agreed. And until we see the price we will not have any idea. However, I suspect Ricoh does. By this point they should have been taking orders from dealers for some time. And the dealers will know the retail as well as their cost so the orders Ricoh is receiving will be a strong indication of how well it will sell.

You and I and a couple people in the RIcoh marketing office can only guess. But when you ask several thousand retailers to put money on the line you will get a very good idea of whether they think the price is right, and how many they will sell at that price.

Personally at <$2,000 I am pre-ordering. $2k to $2.5 I will likely wait a bit and see the reviews. Over $2.5k I will until fall or Black Friday sales. I have a trip to the Caribbean scheduled for March, if they can deliver before then I'll buy at up to $3k for the trip. But after that no point in rushing for me. And it looks like they will not make March so I guess I wait.

01-01-2016, 04:08 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
It is to me, and many others of course, but we are not the target market.
You say that im not the whole target ( and ofcourse that im not haha).. the thing is that we dont actually know WHO is the real target of this camera.. Do you know?? we know just the basics, but thats it, besides that everything we have done are guessings, whishings, etc...

Also you are talking about many photographers that shot Pentax years ago, are they still shooting Pentax and are active photographers?? or they jumped ships and invested in something else? .. aiming for old photographers hoping that they buy an expensive camera to take photos that they can already can do with with whatever FF gear Sony/Canon/Nikon are they using ( assuming that they are shooting FF), is not such an smart move, this people that you are talking about already have their old glass.. will they invest in the new glass?? doubt it... You also said that Nikon users have lots of options to pick when they release a new model ( and that is true) and Pentax dont... thaaaat it is not quite true.. because Pentax users have the choise of switching brands ( as many many many already did ), and i think that this is what Ricoh eventually will try to stop.

But we have talked about this many many times before so.. we are just guessing things a little different.

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
We will see that soon enough. I see a longer list of buyers for sub2500. A very short list for 3500plus. But ofcourse you can't make the same camera with those price tags, they are very different.
agree with that too

Last edited by kooks; 01-01-2016 at 04:30 PM.
01-01-2016, 04:15 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
It is to me, and many others of course, but we are not the target market.
QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
You also said that Nikon users have lots of options to pick when they release a new model ( and that is true) and Pentax dont... thaaaat it is not quite true.. because Pentax users have the choise of switching brands ( as many many many already did ), and i think that this is what Ricoh eventually will try to stop.
These two make us the target market.
01-01-2016, 05:18 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
Also you are talking about many photographers that shot Pentax years ago, are they still shooting Pentax and are active photographers?? or they jumped ships and invested in something else? .. aiming for old photographers hoping that they buy an expensive camera to take photos that they can already can do with with whatever FF gear Sony/Canon/Nikon are they using ( assuming that they are shooting FF), is not such an smart move, this people that you are talking about already have their old glass.. will they invest in the new glass?? doubt it...
You misunderstand what I am saying. I do not think Pentax went after these old photographers. As you note they might not be a good market because they might not buy any new glass. They already have another system. But I have spoke to a number and they have a lot of history with Pentax and have the glass so they might easily buy a FF body to go with the glass they already have. Is this a "target market"? No. But if they do buy a body that is going to take inventory to satisfy that need. My point was only that the initial demand will be very high for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with this forum or people who currently use Pentax. There is nothing else out there, and until that demand is met, prices will stay high and sales will be good. After that? Who knows.

01-01-2016, 05:44 PM   #95
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There is an active Pentaxian group which is buying new products, despite other brands being available. If it weren't, Pentax would had died long ago.
Not people with old lenses which won't buy new ones; not people without money. Pentax buyers with money. That's the K-1's target.
01-01-2016, 06:04 PM   #96
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My biggest concern with an expensive body ( $3000+ ) is that just a few ( very few ) Pentax users will buy it at the begining, eventually they might buy it when the price drops ( and if sales arent moving it will drop, hard ). Also retailers will be "afraid" to invest in a camera that doesnt move in their inventory, camera sales are also related with glass sales, more cameras in the street eventually means more pontential FF lenses buyers, and im thinking thats something that Ricoh will like to have.

As today, the new D-FA lenses prices i think are very affortable for a FF system.
01-01-2016, 07:14 PM   #97
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And I'm quite convinced the dealers won't be able to fulfill all orders, initially. Not for $3000+, but for whatever is the real price.
Don't worry needlessly.
01-01-2016, 07:18 PM   #98
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No matter what everyone thinks, Pentax can always surprise us.

01-02-2016, 02:14 AM   #99
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If Ricoh would've released a FF the second they acquired Pentax, I'm sure it would've done bad due to them rushing to put one out because you know, the whole "PENTAX IS DOOMED WITHOUT A FF!!!" motto.

Right now they had enough time to do the R&D to put out a capable FF that will satisfy a good amount of those who plan to get one when it's released (or within a year or so of it being release), and the fact that their keeping everything so close to the vest spec wise so far is building more hype to what will be release & what other FF's it's going up against.
01-02-2016, 06:55 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
No matter what everyone thinks, Pentax can always surprise us.
Hey Norm,
I hope that surprise is a sub $2k, 42MP beast!!
01-02-2016, 07:09 AM   #101
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And I hope not.*
Think about it: Pentax is not a charity, not a money-losing-to-make-btnapa-happy enterprise. They must make a profit, and the only way of doing it with a "sub $2k, 42MP beast" is to cut corners everywhere. I would not be happy with such a crippled product.
There is no magic allowing them to make products so much cheaper than the competition's.

* Well, I actually know it's not the case.
01-02-2016, 07:41 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And I hope not.*
Think about it: Pentax is not a charity, not a money-losing-to-make-btnapa-happy enterprise. They must make a profit, and the only way of doing it with a "sub $2k, 42MP beast" is to cut corners everywhere. I would not be happy with such a crippled product.
There is no magic allowing them to make products so much cheaper than the competition's.

* Well, I actually know it's not the case.
Take it easy Kunzite. Far be it from me to want Ricoh to cut corners or to lose money because I wish so! I know it is hard (but not impossible) to meet that price point. We can hope, can't we?

In any case, I will be going to the CES show in Vegas this coming week. There are only a handful of vendors I want to see, Ricoh being the main one. I'll see if I can get the Ricoh guys to "spill the bean" on the FF pricing. Will let you know.
01-02-2016, 07:52 AM   #103
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Will it be a top end or bottom end of market camera. At the moment Nikon offer the D4s for £4195 and at the other end of the market the D610 for £999 so the price will have to be between these two points to sell. I would think it will be well under £2000 because it must attract new users of full frame and take sells from Nikon. We will find out in the next 3 months maybe by end of Feb if they wish to get the start of this years summer market which will start last week of March this year with Easter being 27 March
01-02-2016, 09:01 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
Take it easy Kunzite. Far be it from me to want Ricoh to cut corners or to lose money because I wish so! I know it is hard (but not impossible) to meet that price point. We can hope, can't we?
You know the saying, careful what you wish for, you just might get it?

Except you won't. Fortunately.
01-02-2016, 02:21 PM   #105
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Dreams do come true. FORTUNATELY.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You know the saying, careful what you wish for, you just might get it?

Except you won't. Fortunately.
Arn't you being such a positive soul starting 2016!!

If you remember, when Pentax released its ground breaking 645D at almost $12,000, the photo world went nuts over what a value it was. Not being able to afford one, I wished for a successor for less than $10,000. Guess what? They introduced the 645Z at an introductory price of $8,500. And now that camera is going for less than $7,000. Holy cow Ricoh is going broke selling 645Z cameras all day!

So, I guess we can wish for the impossible... and maybe it will come true, FORTUNATELY.

---------- Post added 01-02-16 at 01:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by chris140472 Quote
Will it be a top end or bottom end of market camera. At the moment Nikon offer the D4s for £4195 and at the other end of the market the D610 for £999 so the price will have to be between these two points to sell. I would think it will be well under £2000 because it must attract new users of full frame and take sells from Nikon. We will find out in the next 3 months maybe by end of Feb if they wish to get the start of this years summer market which will start last week of March this year with Easter being 27 March
Agree 100%. They will sell boat load at around or below $2K. Let's not forget that people making a living from their photography will buy two as they always bring a backup. I know wedding photographers (Canon guys) who routinely bring at least three bodies to their assignments.
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