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12-29-2015, 05:42 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by hjoseph7 Quote
None of Pentax camera's are listed as Professional.
QuoteOriginally posted by hjoseph7 Quote
Only the 645d and 645z are considered Professional cameras by Pentax.


...right.

12-29-2015, 09:23 PM   #17
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Well, dunno yet if there will be lots of "pros" using K-1, but there sure will be "antis" that already hate it and/or will not get it.... because it's a Pentax
12-29-2015, 11:33 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
I always had an issue with the "Pro" label when it came to Pentax cameras. Way back in the film days when Pentax MX and LX were as good as any of the Nikon, Canon and Minolta offerings, they still did not consider them "pro" enough. So I guess the same stigma has stayed with the brand. I consider my K5IIs and K3 as pro as they come. Pro class image and built like a tank body... so tell me what part of that is not pro. I am sure the same will apply to the FF when it comes out. I guess Pentax is the Rodney Dangerfield of the camera world... it never gets enough respect!
Sam Haskins did some of his best work with a Pentax, and nobody would describe him as other than a professional.

Makers or their boosters in the news media don't influence real professionals by calling their product a "pro" camera: that particular part of their marketing is aimed at "aspirational" amateurs.
12-30-2015, 07:01 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Makers or their boosters in the news media don't influence real professionals by calling their product a "pro" camera: that particular part of their marketing is aimed at "aspirational" amateurs.
To say nothing of people who exude their "expertise" all over YouTube on a regular basis. One wonders how and when some of them actually get time to do professional shoots.

To digress somewhat, it's a bit like the high-ranking chess players who retire from professional play to write books for club-level amateurs or serious high-school players. Once you pretty much had to be a grandmaster to do this, but now there's a whole lot of International Masters (the next rank down) or even lesser ranks putting stuff out, sometimes at a furious rate, ranging from excellent to awful in quality. You can tell that some of it is just being churned out as fast as the author can scrape together some games and a batch of commentary - it's sucker-bait, trading on a rank and name and sometimes with a lot of repetition - but the quality stuff is really, really good. I could name names in both categories, but to say openly what I personally feel about the worst (whether "experts" on YouTube or bad chess authors) might risk a libel suit.

12-30-2015, 08:26 AM   #20
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The number of true professional photographers keeps shrinking, so designing for and selling to pros would not be good investment for Ricoh. However, if the vast amateur market thinks a camera is used by "pros" the design effort becomes much more profitable. The 645 won't appeal to the wider market, even if considered "pro" - but the FF camera would. I think that's more the financial reason Ricoh proceeded with the product. So it will be advertised as a pro model, regardless of how many true pros use it.
12-30-2015, 08:35 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Sam Haskins did some of his best work with a Pentax, and nobody would describe him as other than a professional.

Makers or their boosters in the news media don't influence real professionals by calling their product a "pro" camera: that particular part of their marketing is aimed at "aspirational" amateurs.
Thank you for the Sam Haskins info. I did not know of him or his work. I learned something new today. It is good to know that his iconic work was produced with Pentax cameras.

On your second point, that is the power of marketing muscle. In the race for people's attention and a precious corner of their mind, A "B" grade product (Ok but overpriced) product with an "A" grade marketing always wins over an "A" grade (Good, priced right) product with a "C" grade marketing. That is what has happened to Pentax over the years.
12-30-2015, 09:45 AM - 1 Like   #22
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Pro's are a degenerate cast of people who incessantly try to charge money for a bunch of lousy fat wedding photos. Most of them fall for clichés and take pride in apointments for insipid commercials, but hate photography as photography hates them.

They also shoot indiscriminately at everything in continuous mode without making sense who are the good and the bad guys. An army of Canikon militants, why would you like to share camera with them?

Last edited by dreamfoto; 12-30-2015 at 09:53 AM.
12-30-2015, 10:33 AM   #23
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With the advance of camera and sensor technology in the recent 10-15 years, the definition of "pro" photographers have watered down so much that any one who picked up a honking expensive Canikon camera will likely call him/herself pro. It is also unfortunate that those who think are they are "pro" photographers are also aliening themselves and associate themselves only to holding either a Canon or Nikon model camera. And TBH, I use to admire pro photographers and the work they produce.... and now as I progress, I only admire those who truly are, but not the ones who pretend they are.

12-30-2015, 10:36 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Sam Haskins did some of his best work with a Pentax, and nobody would describe him as other than a professional.
he made his mark as a film photographer, not with a digital camera... there are probably more relevant examples of pros shooting with pentax cameras.

"Sam Haskins doing the last shoot of his life, December 2006, Sydney, Australia for Harper's Bazaar. He had just celebrated his 80th birthday. It was also his only digital shoot. It forced him to break a 30 year loyalty to Pentax because they did not yet have the 645D available." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sam_Haskins_by_Ludwig_Haskins.jpg
12-30-2015, 01:10 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
he made his mark as a film photographer, not with a digital camera... there are probably more relevant examples of pros shooting with pentax cameras.

"Sam Haskins doing the last shoot of his life, December 2006, Sydney, Australia for Harper's Bazaar. He had just celebrated his 80th birthday. It was also his only digital shoot. It forced him to break a 30 year loyalty to Pentax because they did not yet have the 645D available." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sam_Haskins_by_Ludwig_Haskins.jpg
Thanks for that last bit of information, which I wasn't aware of. I have a copy of his iconic story book "Cowboy Kate", which I first recall from 1965 when it was published, though I found mine much later. So, I'm well aware that his Pentax use was in the film era.

We were, however, talking about how the name has been regarded over the years.
12-30-2015, 03:37 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
We were, however, talking about how the name has been regarded over the years.
the o.p. started the thread with "None of Pentax camera's are listed as Professional"; i think that he's asking about the status of modern pentax cameras.

historically, i'd guess that just about every pro photographer from the film days used pentax gear at one point or another; and not necessarily mf gear, either... take one microcosm, surf photography, which most people know nothing about:

jeff divine, writing the intro to the ron stoner story, talks about starting out his pro career with a pentax h1a and a lentar 400mm: https://books.google.com/books?id=PAHRkNqUtgAC&lpg=PA6&ots=_Z4GprYgta&dq=sur...camera&f=false

larry "flame" moore(r.i.p.): "Flame began taking surfing photos in the '60s, during his sophomore year in college. "Back then, everything was manual," he says of the equipment. He shot pictures from piers and other vantage points with a Pentax K-1000, and recalls that the Century 650mm f/6.8 lens was the standard back then."
Read more at Shooting Dramatic Surfing Photos | Shutterbug

leroy grannis: "I went to Hawaii every December from '61 to '66." In attempting to shoot Sunset, he first shot from a surfboard, hand-holding a Pentax with a 200mm Takumar lens wrapped in a plastic bag. "When a sneaker set broke in the channel," wrote Brad Barrett, "he almost lost the rig and decided maybe the plastic bag idea wasn't such a good one." LEGENDARY SURFER: LEROY "Granny" GRANNIS
12-30-2015, 04:21 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
the o.p. started the thread with "None of Pentax camera's are listed as Professional"; i think that he's asking about the status of modern pentax cameras.
Yes, I agree, but you and I both know how things wander around in these threads.
12-31-2015, 09:10 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by hjoseph7 Quote
Is the Pentax Full Frame going to be considered a Professional camera ? None of Pentax camera's are listed as Professional. Only the 645d and 645z are considered Professional cameras by Pentax.
In my opinion, "PRO" is all about world wide support, etc. Not the camera itself. Unless Pentax is going to set up something like Nikon and canon have and sponsor professionals etc, it will never be a "PRO" camera regardless of how many pros actually use it

And besides, who really cares what someone else thinks. We have lived long enough to know that no canikon shooter takes Pentax seriously any way
12-31-2015, 09:32 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
In my opinion, "PRO" is all about world wide support, etc. Not the camera itself. Unless Pentax is going to set up something like Nikon and canon have and sponsor professionals etc, it will never be a "PRO" camera regardless of how many pros actually use it

And besides, who really cares what someone else thinks. We have lived long enough to know that no canikon shooter takes Pentax seriously any way
I don't see anything pro happen from Ricoh Imaging for the time. There is little to no cash within the Imaging business and no to nothing between the rest of Ricoh and the Imaging branch. They have their plan working with ambassadors and that is a nice representation, but nothing materializing in the sense of making the brand bigger.

I'll explain the last thing, since I feel people wanne jump on me for stating this.

Ricoh Imaging is launching a new product. They always put some images with it online. Mostly images made by a toddler. A professional organisation would sent one of their ambassadors with the new lens, like 150-450mm, to Africa to make a nice set of images to present with the lens on the release date. They don't do that. An ambassador can if he Likes go to Africa on his own budget and get the lens as a loner. That is far from professional in my view.
12-31-2015, 09:39 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I'll explain the last thing, since I feel people wanne jump on me for stating this.

Ricoh Imaging is launching a new product. They always put some images with it online. Mostly images made by a toddler. A professional organisation would sent one of their ambassadors with the new lens, like 150-450mm, to Africa to make a nice set of images to present with the lens on the release date. They don't do that. An ambassador can if he Likes go to Africa on his own budget and get the lens as a loner. That is far from professional in my view.
i couldn't agree more !
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