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01-05-2016, 05:18 PM   #61
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For the love of god Pentax, I know it is tempting after the announcement of the Nikon D5, but do NOT put a touchscreen on the K-1 - they never work when it is raining.

01-06-2016, 12:33 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
For the love of god Pentax, I know it is tempting after the announcement of the Nikon D5, but do NOT put a touchscreen on the K-1 - they never work when it is raining.
Everything is possible.. haha.. But i do remember that at some reviews when people compared the KS2 and the D5500 they didnt like that the Pentax didnt have the touchscreen for video... the question here is how far pentax will like to take the video feature with the K1? .. i dont do videos, but i know that having a touchscreen helps, especially if they have focusing while the camera is recording.

We'll find out soon..
01-06-2016, 01:34 PM - 1 Like   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by scwinn Quote
My local photo store www.lozeau.com (click on "English" at the very top...) is accepting reservations for the new Pentax FF for $500. Cool eh?
If they go out of business before it's released, do they send your money back right away or do you get added to the list of creditors so that you can maybe see 35 cents of it in nine years?
01-06-2016, 05:40 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
Electronics are cheap. Most of the cost is R&D. Thing is, most current cameras in everybody's line up is more or less based on a previous model so a lot of the innards are all the same. They could probably sell FF bodies for $1000 and still turn a decent profit but that would be disruptive and none of the manufacturers are going to do that. Pentax, in recent years, has been the most disruptive. The K10D was almost half the price of the D200 and pretty much matched it in features. The K20D was the same camera with a different sensor and software. I'll bet they turned some awesome profits on that one. Lenses have a lot of labor involved so the prices are understandable. Bodies? I think we're getting ripped off! They're mostly 3D printed plastic and metal with mass produced electroside. My old Spotmatic, with lots of mechanical and moving parts, probably cost far more to design and manufacture.
There are fewer electronics is a DSLR than a smartphone. The sensor is the big issue. The Pentax model seems to purchase SONY sensors after they hit the market, when the pricing is optimal for Ricoh. Moore's Law is finally slowing down for chips, but not for sensors. Phase One is introducing a 100MP back. For a FF, whatever SONY sensor Pentax has will be easily good enough.

01-06-2016, 06:27 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by quant2325 Quote
There are fewer electronics is a DSLR than a smartphone. The sensor is the big issue. The Pentax model seems to purchase SONY sensors after they hit the market, when the pricing is optimal for Ricoh. Moore's Law is finally slowing down for chips, but not for sensors. Phase One is introducing a 100MP back. For a FF, whatever SONY sensor Pentax has will be easily good enough.
And yet, I remember when my *ist D went in for warranty work, the technician told me it had more moving parts than a car. I'm thinking you might be simplifying a bit much.
01-06-2016, 06:42 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And yet, I remember when my *ist D went in for warranty work, the technician told me it had more moving parts than a car. I'm thinking you might be simplifying a bit much.
A (Pentax) dSLR still has an aperture lever, mirror and shutter, more than one motor, mechanical levers and analog buttons and dials. Compared to an SLR analog camera it loses the shutter clockwork, film advance and counter mechanism - and not much else. That doesn't even open discussion of the cost of the sensors.

PCB's are inexpensive. Polycarbonate bodies can be. Magnesium alloy frames are fairly complex stampings and the material isn't free. Setting up the manufacturing line for these components is a cost, especially for the polycarbonate mold and the stamping. None of that allows for the fact that even in Vietnam people are expensive and a Pentax dSLR is a person-intensive assembly.

Now if the respondent had made that statement about some skinny MILC I might be more agreeable.
01-06-2016, 07:10 PM - 3 Likes   #67
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All older things have less moving parts......I'm a case in point!
01-06-2016, 07:16 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by quant2325 Quote
There are fewer electronics is a DSLR than a smartphone. The sensor is the big issue. The Pentax model seems to purchase SONY sensors after they hit the market, when the pricing is optimal for Ricoh. Moore's Law is finally slowing down for chips, but not for sensors. Phase One is introducing a 100MP back. For a FF, whatever SONY sensor Pentax has will be easily good enough.
New models often have new sensors, true, and obviously somewhat more expensive than last years sensor. But I guess my question is, how much of the insides of any of the new camera bodies are "new", cutting edge parts or electronics? Probably not as much as they would like us to believe. I'm not being critical of Pentax here. They have been a few months behind the others but have continued to release excellent camera bodies at prices well below what Nikon is asking but often using the same sensor. And despite being much smaller and selling considerably fewer cameras, they have managed to stay in the black. That suggests to me that there is a pretty good profit in DSLR's.

It's pretty clear that overall, the digital camera market has peaked. I'm still very satisfied with my K5 after 4+ years and there's not much that is enticing me to upgrade although the improved low light AF capability of the K3 would be one reason. A few more pixels isn't. I'm waiting for my K5 to break. By then, the FF will be reality and maybe even a new aps-c body too. I'll decide what to buy when that happens. I'm semi-retired now so I can no longer just go out and buy whatever I want. Photography is one of my less expensive activities. I have much more invested in fishing if you include the cost of my kayaks, which I also use for photography BTW. A top of the line fly rod costs more than a Limited lens. Then there is my Harley.......that new Nikon D5 that got announced yesterday wouldn't pay for my chrome. I don't know how many backs Phase One sells but probably not many. At $49K, they don't need to sell many which brings up the biggest factor in pricing. Products sell for what what the buyers are willing to pay for them. A Harley cruiser sells for much more than a Honda Shadow, even though the Honda may arguably be a better bike. Why? Because Harley riders are willing to pay the premium to ride one. The same thing happens in the camera world and Pentax, at least in modern times, is a "value" brand.

01-06-2016, 07:25 PM   #69
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A dSLR is a dSLR. Pentax has about as many parts as a Nikon or a Canon. Pentax stays profitable at its price point because it doesn't spend a lot of money marketing, doesn't finance dealer inventory, has high dealer minimums, has very little (comparatively) distribution infrastructure - especially in North America - almost no expensive salespeople and does not have a massive capital investment in Plant & Equipment to amortize.

Aside from those differences, Ricoh's cost inputs are about the same as CaNikon.
01-21-2016, 12:34 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by K David Quote
If they go out of business before it's released, do they send your money back right away or do you get added to the list of creditors so that you can maybe see 35 cents of it in nine years?
I highly doubt it unless your credit card company can help. Just like people who purchase a 1 year gym membership in cash are out of luck if the place closes down.(I've see it happened overnight with people showing up to the gym the next day and the place was completely cleaned out).
01-21-2016, 02:32 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by richmondthefish Quote
I highly doubt it unless your credit card company can help. Just like people who purchase a 1 year gym membership in cash are out of luck if the place closes down.(I've see it happened overnight with people showing up to the gym the next day and the place was completely cleaned out).
I had that buying my first computer for home in 1997. He said to come in and collect my pc before noon on that friday. So my brother and I went at 11 am for my brandnew Pentium 1 166mmx. Absolutely fantastic and fast with extra 3 MB RAM memory. In the afternoon we went back for a cable and the place was banctrupted.
01-21-2016, 02:36 PM   #72
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You must have one quite a good job of haggling over the price of that PC...
03-27-2016, 04:10 AM   #73
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About Lozeau (biggest camera store in Montreal (maybe Canada) with absolutely everything for pro photo and pro video) and the K1. I was there yesterday helping a friend pick up her first camera and I took the opportunity to talk to a representative about the K1. I asked if there was some anticipation building up before the official launch and if the staff members were excited about it in any way.
He said no and explained he didn't care much about Pentax ff lenses. He was saying how there were no lenses at all for the ff but old legacy lenses. We talked a bit about it but it seemed convinced the lens selection made it a very bad choice. He also said that the Pentax rep doesn't offer any service at all and that they weren't giving a pre production unit to play with. He then looked into his computer to see how Many units his boss ordered. 12. I asked if those were pre orders, and nope, according to his inventory, not a single K1 had been preordered at the store.
Not that I care much if Pentax is a popular brand or not, but it still surprises me that such an amazing camera would get no preorder at all.
03-27-2016, 04:19 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by kp0c Quote
Not that I care much if Pentax is a popular brand or not, but it still surprises me that such an amazing camera would get no preorder at all.
With that kind of enthusiasm and (dis) mis-information from Lozeau I'm not surprised.
03-27-2016, 04:53 AM   #75
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I hear you, but honestly, it sounded a lot more like they had no information at all. According to him, they get absolutely no support (nor training, nor anything else) from any Pentax Rep, so I understand their position somehow. They have all the latest gear in all the different systems. Fuji, Sony, Panasonic and the traditional dslr as well. When I discussed the needs and budget (<1000) of my friend with the representative, he said there was nothing good from Canon at that price range that could match what Nikon offers with the d3300/d5300, something I agree on. However, although he had a Pentax display with a ks2, k50, k3 and k3ii, he never once mentioned the ks2 as an alternative to the d3300. Call me crazy, but I have worked in retail when I was still an undergraduate and it's not that hard to make people sale you product, just offer the damn staff a spiff of 50$ for every ks2, k-50 or k3 kit they sell. I'm sure it wouldn't take a week for the representatives to know all about Pentax characteristics and suddenly, they might figure out how competitive their kits actually are.
The only reason I'd like Pentax to be more successful is for them to be able to develop more/quicker lenses and to have some spare cash to work on some of their weaknesses like focus system and algorithm. It would also mean more local presence, which would also be a plus.
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