[Nicolas06]

Well the body had better be good, because:

1. Their 70-200 offering if much heavier than the competition and really won't be any better.
2. Their 400mm offering (150-450) is heavier by 650g and not any better than the competition, I would say the canon 100-400II is better (from what I have seen, purely unsubstantiated)
3. Their 24-70 offering is standard, nothing fine there, on par
4. Up until now their AF has been well and truly sub-par compared to canon and Nikon, so how exactly all of a sudden they are going to pull a rabbit out of their hat and have amazing AF is beyond me, but hey we can only hope.
5. No ultra wide lens. I guess you could mod a Zeiss ZF 15mm with a K mount.
6. No optimized prime lenses other than old lenses.

Nikon already has all the offerings that you need so why wait. Get out shooting.

I am debating a FF or crop body to partner with my 645z, only reason I am waiting personally.

I would nuance that a bit:
- affordable great UWA primes like anybody else thanks to Samyang.
- Unique high quality FF primes to start with thanks to FA limited. An unmatched compromize of quality, price and size.
- I would wait for 150-450 results on the future FF before saying it is not as good as the Canon and would consider that if the Canon is "only" 400mm it does provided 11% less reach and so MTF figures should be reduced by 11% too. A serious comparison would of course compare real focal length at different focus distanceto have an idea of the real reach.For example the 150-500 from sigma doesn't seem to provide more reach than the 150-450 in reality. The 500mm is a bit of a marketing figure.

[monochrome]

Well the body had better be good

Strawman arguments. Nikons aren't Pentaxes.

[RobA_Oz]

Well the body had better be good, because:

1. Their 70-200 offering if much heavier than the competition and really won't be any better.
2. Their 400mm offering (150-450) is heavier by 650g and not any better than the competition, I would say the canon 100-400II is better (from what I have seen, purely unsubstantiated)
3. Their 24-70 offering is standard, nothing fine there, on par
4. Up until now their AF has been well and truly sub-par compared to canon and Nikon, so how exactly all of a sudden they are going to pull a rabbit out of their hat and have amazing AF is beyond me, but hey we can only hope.
5. No ultra wide lens. I guess you could mod a Zeiss ZF 15mm with a K mount.
6. No optimized prime lenses other than old lenses.

Nikon already has all the offerings that you need so why wait. Get out shooting.

I am debating a FF or crop body to partner with my 645z, only reason I am waiting personally.

These are all reasonable points, in a general debate about which 35FF system to go for, but the OP has many FF lenses for both systems, so it's moot as to whether any of this would sway his decision.

AF performance is also probably irrelevant for a photo safari in Iceland (what's Icelandic for "safari"?) and Pentax AF has always lagged behind the competition only in speed, but is recently better than many in accuracy, from what I read.

Personally, I would opt for light weight and WR in a journey like this, whatever that brings to the table.

[Fenwoodian]

My Iceland trip is not yet scheduled. It's a present from my son and I have some flexibility as to scheduling - but my preference would be in the late Spring.

The Nikon D7100 is much better than anything I've tried from Pentax for wildlife. The D7100 has very fast and accurate auto-focus, and I use some spectacular Nikkor telephotos.

I originally had planned to use the D7100 for the wildlife and for the helicopter rides; and the Pentax Full Frame for the wide angle landscapes (some using pixel-shift). But now, I just might forget that plan and just go with all Nikon - one APS-C body (for wildlife) and a full frame body (for scenery).

Finally, I'm from Wisconsin and like cheese.

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Last edited by Fenwoodian; 01-03-2016 at 03:14 PM.

[btnapa]

I currently shoot two systems, Nikon and Pentax. Both are APS-C (D7100, K3ii) but I've got mostly full frame glass for each system.

I've been holding off on getting a full frame Nikon body because I wanted to see the Pentax full frame specs before committing to Nikon full frame.

Hey Pentax, it's now 2016 and I'm seeing some mighty tempting deals out there on Nikon full frame bodies! Please hurry up and announce your full frame's specs so I can make my full frame buying decision before my photo safari to Iceland.

Why two systems in the first place?

My friend shoots the Nikon 7100 (and a D3) with a whole bunch of Nikon glass. One day while at his house, we shot side-by-side with my K3. I got to try the 7100. The focus is super fast and accurate vs. the K3. He also has a lot more lens choices than I do. A system is about the sum of the pieces (Body, glass, flash, etc.). BTW, Nikon flash system is the best of just about all of the DSLR world. I know the flash system advantage from my Canon days (Canon sucked).

If 36MP is enough resolution for you then the Nikon 810 at $2,900 is a great value as it gives you access to a much larger lens system including Sigma, Tamron and Tokina glass. Why wait for a Pentax FF which is going to be handicapped in lens and flash department with almost no access to third party (more reasonably priced) glass?

[2351HD]

I would nuance that a bit:
- affordable great UWA primes like anybody else thanks to Samyang.
- Unique high quality FF primes to start with thanks to FA limited. An unmatched compromize of quality, price and size.
- I would wait for 150-450 results on the future FF before saying it is not as good as the Canon and would consider that if the Canon is "only" 400mm it does provided 11% less reach and so MTF figures should be reduced by 11% too. A serious comparison would of course compare real focal length at different focus distanceto have an idea of the real reach.For example the 150-500 from sigma doesn't seem to provide more reach than the 150-450 in reality. The 500mm is a bit of a marketing figure.

Are the Samyang FF really that good? Do they hold up to a 36mp or 42mp sensor, I do not know.

As for the 450mm, if I were travelling and/or hiking I would prefer the 1/2kg or more weight reduction for 50mm focal length. Anyway, its all hearsay until I actually hold the new Pentax body and 150-450. Unfortunately for me, barely any store here in Australia choose to stock Pentax, let alone a 150-450 lens.

I want to love the new FF, now that I have been using Pentax for a few years I am not sure I would want to change.

[Fenwoodian]

Why two systems in the first place?

My friend shoots the Nikon 7100 (and a D3) with a whole bunch of Nikon glass. One day while at his house, we shot side-by-side with my K3. I got to try the 7100. The focus is super fast and accurate vs. the K3. He also has a lot more lens choices than I do. A system is about the sum of the pieces (Body, glass, flash, etc.). BTW, Nikon flash system is the best of just about all of the DSLR world. I know the flash system advantage from my Canon days (Canon sucked).

If 36MP is enough resolution for you then the Nikon 810 at $2,900 is a great value as it gives you access to a much larger lens system including Sigma, Tamron and Tokina glass. Why wait for a Pentax FF which is going to be handicapped in lens and flash department with almost no access to third party (more reasonably priced) glass?

All great points!

I may hold out a bit longer for the Pentax Full Frame because: 1. I LOVE pixel shift (Nikon 800/810 doesn't have) 2. The Pentax full frame might have a larger and better sensor than the D800/D810's 36MP sensor 3. The Pentax Full Frame will have a tilt/movable rear screen ((Nikon 800/810 doesn't have) and I need a tilt screen for my low angle landscapes.

It's not the lack of premium wide-angle glass that the Pentax system lacks that has entered into my decision. I already have 3Zeiss ZK wide angle lenses and the Pentax FA 31mm Limited, all premium glass that to my eye is as good as any wide angle lens available for Nikon bodies (Zeiss Otus does not yet have a wide angle lens that's available).

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Last edited by Fenwoodian; 01-03-2016 at 03:43 PM.

[Kunzite]

I want to love the new FF, now that I have been using Pentax for a few years I am not sure I would want to change.

Do you?

Mirrors are dead.

1. The unreleased D FA* 70-200 has still to be tested on a FF camera. Yes, it's heavier.
2. The D FA 150-400 has still to be tested on a FF camera. Yes, it's heavier.
3. Indeed; it brings nothing new compared to the Tamron on Canon/Nikon mounts. It won't beat what you have on Canon/Nikon, but it's a required product.
4. "Amazing AF" is not required. Another step forward, though, would be welcomed; and the new fast-AF lenses should help with that.
5. A D FA 15-30 will be available, for starting. And the FA 31mm Limited might not be so bad.
6. That would be the next step.

People wanting Pentax to "beat" Canon/Nikon now, in 2016, should give up and jump ship (if they haven't done it already). These FF products' purpose is not to "beat" Canon/Nikon, that would be impossible. It is to offer something more for Pentaxians.

Ricoh Imaging's strategy is quite sound: have a first camera on the market, cover a good focal range with f/2.8 zooms then some extra, a more affordable "kit" zoom pending, then (as asahi man said, and it makes sense) there'll be some primes. Many will find something workable within that; scratch it, people are already doing it. Many will find something workable, after yet unannounced products will be released.

[NZ_Ross]

It seems sensible to wait for the Pentax FF specs to be released - it is only 8 weeks away now until we will all know.

You have waited this long already, what difference is another 8 weeks going to make?

At the end of the day each persons camera system purchase decisions are made using what is important to them, and their own selection criteria. For some that means they 'must' have Leica bodies and lenses, for others the Sony A7 series is the right answer. For many others the answer is Canon or Nikon. Others I have read - their Phase One or Hasselblad MF digital system is the only system that is suitable for them. Because each individual's preferences and use are unique, there is no 'right' answer to this question.

I have a number of Pentax lenses, and a K-3. As a result I am looking forward to seeing the specifications and price of the new Pentax FF and subsequent tests and evaluations.

Whether I buy the Pentax FF or not is a different question - the K-3 is a very capable camera....

[2351HD]

Do you?


1. The unreleased D FA* 70-200 has still to be tested on a FF camera. Yes, it's heavier.
2. The D FA 150-400 has still to be tested on a FF camera. Yes, it's heavier.
3. Indeed; it brings nothing new compared to the Tamron on Canon/Nikon mounts. It won't beat what you have on Canon/Nikon, but it's a required product.
4. "Amazing AF" is not required. Another step forward, though, would be welcomed; and the new fast-AF lenses should help with that.
5. A D FA 15-30 will be available, for starting. And the FA 31mm Limited might not be so bad.
6. That would be the next step.

People wanting Pentax to "beat" Canon/Nikon now, in 2016, should give up and jump ship (if they haven't done it already). These FF products' purpose is not to "beat" Canon/Nikon, that would be impossible. It is to offer something more for Pentaxians.

Ricoh Imaging's strategy is quite sound: have a first camera on the market, cover a good focal range with f/2.8 zooms then some extra, a more affordable "kit" zoom pending, then (as asahi man said, and it makes sense) there'll be some primes. Many will find something workable within that; scratch it, people are already doing it. Many will find something workable, after yet unannounced products will be released.

I have the impression that you feel I am contradicting myself Kunzite, but my opinions still stand true for me, yes I do wish the new FF had an EVF and I do feel that mirrors are dead (dead for all but some professional aspects) but that won't stop me from purchasing a new body that has a mirror if it offers the other things that I require. Heck I have spent $25k on a Pentax MF system and it has a big mirror.

I want to like the new FF for its merits and eagerly await it's announcement, as I do indeed enjoy my Pentax camera, love the interface and build quality and all else. That doesn't mean that I have to subscribe to loving OVFs, just means that I put up with them for the meantime.

[Rupert]

This is shaping up to be one of Rupert's Ugly Posts.

Don't blame old Rupert....but if Otis comes snooping around and sees this thread, you can count on one of his Jumper Rants. Otis doesn't like threats, he just wants to see honest Jumpers that jump and go splat. No fooling around, no threats, just jump and go splat.....He loves telling the little blind orphan squirrels bedtime stories of the Jumper that was a lousy shooter and spent a ton of cash jumping and then was no better than he was before he jumped. Some laugh so hard it cures their blindness...but they are still orphans, of course.

Regards!

BTW.... Boriscleto...save that cheese in case Otis shows up...he loves cheese!

[btnapa]

Rupert, I needed the laugh and you made my day! LOL. BTW, you guys should look into writing for SNL. It will be a lot funnier than the stuff they put on air these days.

I like cheese too. Count me in. I'll bring the wine!

[Nicolas06]

Sure that obviously the OP has all the information is hand and basically has started a troll topic (willing or not). I guess/hope he is aware of that.

Practically I don't care one bit what he decide to do and I know that whatever he does, it will not change anything for his safari in term of quality of the vacations of pictures taken.

Beside I have been there and I wonder what kind of 'safari' is planed? The best in Iceland is usually the landscapes rather than wildlife but if you insist; there are some birds (better handled with an APSC for reach) not especially better than any other country in the world for that and whales. There sheeps or horses but I wouldn't call that a safari, haha.

And if you are after the whales, like 99.99% whales shoot they look basically so-so because the whale will not jump for you regardless if you have an APSC or an FF or an iphone. I would add that in iceland the boat is following the whales with a radar a few meters away from it because there no laws against it, and that the most basic camera is going to get the shoot anyway... of the top of the whale. The whale is most of the time fully in the water and go a bit outside to get some air every few minutes so that when you get to see it.

Sure that otis would be a better safari subject !

[2351HD]

Who is this Otis guy that people seem to be taking the piss out of?

[RobA_Oz]

Who is this Otis guy that people seem to be taking the piss out of?

Otis is a squirrel from Texas. You'll doubtless hear more about him as you spend time here.