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01-09-2016, 08:23 PM   #16
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...and keep issuing K-mount success products

01-09-2016, 08:26 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kenntak Quote
but they had huge banner ads at the stadiums of two Italian soccer games I watched today
Ricoh also have two stadiums under their own name - Ricoh Arena in Coventry UK, and the Ricoh Coliseum in Toronto.

Ricoh investing in VR vs FF makes little sense. VR already has big players involved - Google, Facebook, Sony, Samsung etc - and it is still very clunky technology. Not much point pouring resources into it at this stage. Let the platforms and technologies evolve a bit more, IMHO, on someone else's dime.
01-09-2016, 08:34 PM - 1 Like   #18
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Wow. You've really gone to extraordinary lengths to convince us the sky is falling WRT all things Ricoh over the past year or so, but this takes it to a new level. Describing this as over the top doesn't do it justice.

Look, I know you've been upset since Ricoh rebuffed your proposal to use Pentax cameras at Ricoh-sponsored event (and I think they were short-sighted to do so). I know you're upset the photography industry has taken a downturn.

But you've really got to move on. Find something in life that inspires you. Seriously. Feeding the bitterness for so long will take its toll on you.
01-09-2016, 08:58 PM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Unless ofcourse the camera is absolutely ready.... If there is still work to do on the camera then I think they should reconsidder!


Here is my look on this subject.

Ricoh Imaging is a small company. They have limited resources. Wheater this is engenering power, production facility's, advertising knowledge or sheer budget ($$ you can only invest once).

K-1
There is a lot of work done on making the K-1. There are people waiting for this camera. There are promises made. But still. If the camera is ready, but not yet in production. Then there is still a moment to think about this. Putting the K-1 in production means investing a lot of money. If I would make just a wild guess on this. You plan to make a production run of say 25.000 camera's. For this you spend money on making your production plant ready. You put out orders for materials to make those camera's. You spend time on training staf. You start working on a plan to promote the camera and make those sales. If I make an estimation on this........You spend at least 25.000.000 $ on this K-1 before even one camera leaves the factory to go to a customer. This investment is for the production to come, and all expenses made in development are not in this and just part of this years fiscal numbers. You have to start to invest those 25.000.000 $ to get a step to your customers and put the K-1 in shops.

VR
The coming hype for 2016 and very likely some years to come is Virtual Reality. Buying a smartphone that works great with your new Virtual Reality glass is a thing that is going big. For that there is a need for content. Game makers are going in. Movie makers will do that soon. Many company's would like to see if there is some market to fill. Ricoh is already one of them. The Ricoh Theta S is a content maker for private use (basicly it is a gadget for consumers) to make content people can show on those new VR glasses. For Ricoh as an early player in this field, there is a market to win. You can also wait and see how others take it from you.

How to invest?
I would invest these 25.000.000 $ in the Theta project:
  • The Theta S is a great little cam. It is a Consumer product. It makes nice Footage, but not on a professional level. That in itself is not a problem. There is a lot of market for people who are willing to spend their $$ on a great gadget as the Theta S.
  • The Theta S should be on sale in stores where people will buy their new smartphone and their first Virtual Reality glass. That means the Theta S should be in stores where there are now mostly no products of Ricoh Imaging. That are many more stores then currently camera stores are left over.
  • There should be a new and even better performing Theta model for consumers this year. This is a project for developing a camera with better sensor performance. Building on the current Theta.
  • There should be a professional grade Theta in development to make market this year. Professional image quality that can be used in projects for company's that want to earn money in Virtual Reality. This maybe can be made build on the knowledge build with the Theta S, but ofcourse for better IQ you need bigger sensor surface.

I think when investing their money in VR there is a bigger chance to make money. Even a lot of money when done right. Setting up new sales channels for Theta, making some dust and wind to Let people know that Theta is the camera they are looking for, setting up production (you have a lot more inventory for such a project) and developing new projects will break those 25.000.000 $.......


I think this would be the wise way to procede the camera business. With 645Z, a nice aps-c K-mount line and the Theta there is a great portfolio. Investing in K-1 fullframe would be a project for when money is coming back in the company from the investment in Virtual Reality!
Ron,

The camera is absolutely ready. Stay tuned. If you are an FF fan and want to get one. You are in for a lot of pleasant surprises.

You really should get a consulting gig with Ricoh. Your Theta focus is so right on it is scary. Complete Theta focus is what Ricoh is doing at CES in Vegas this year. I was surprised to see only Theta and only Theta all over the place. The logic, I was told is to tell people that Ricoh is a forward thinking and innovative company. The booth was pretty busy and the Theta in a dome projection system was pretty cool.

The orders must have come from Japan because the main guy in charge of US market is a serious former photo guy and I cannot believe this Theta focus was his idea. Nikon, Canon, Sony and Panasonic all showed cameras and focused heavily on traditional still and video making technologies and Ricoh had non! They had the same size booth last year and cameras were all over the place. The booth was pretty busy a lot busier than this year. They could have at least put some cameras on display for the camera enthusiasts. I am baffled.

01-10-2016, 12:08 AM   #20
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Well, the good news is that if Ron is right and they pull the plug we all know what the future is and can adjust our gear bags accordingly. But I doubt after all this they will stop the K-1. If nothing else they need to see if it will fly. If it does then Ricoh knows how to invest going forward. If it fails, then FF Pentax is dead and Pentax itself is not far behind.

Way back when one of the biggest arguments made against a Pentax FF was that it seemed way too much of a risk and gamble for a company with such a small user base. Great if it works, disaster if it fails.

Only months to go now, can we stand the suspense?
01-10-2016, 12:10 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Well, the good news is that if Ron is right and they pull the plug we all know what the future is and can adjust our gear bags accordingly. But I doubt after all this they will stop the K-1. If nothing else they need to see if it will fly. If it does then Ricoh knows how to invest going forward. If it fails, then FF Pentax is dead and Pentax itself is not far behind.

Way back when one of the biggest arguments made against a Pentax FF was that it seemed way too much of a risk and gamble for a company with such a small user base. Great if it works, disaster if it fails.

Only months to go now, can we stand the suspense?
Not too long to go and the thing is not a disaster, guaranteed.
01-10-2016, 12:20 AM   #22
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If they 'pull the plug' on FF, lots of people may pull the plug on Pentax, myself included.

Theta is a future play, off to one side of the Pentax camera business. FF is in many ways simply a logical K-mount platform update, and handy in order to stay competitive.
01-10-2016, 12:24 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
Not too long to go and the thing is not a disaster, guaranteed.
Ill hold you to that.
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
If they 'pull the plug' on FF, lots of people may pull the plug on Pentax, myself included.
Agreed, me to though that might 3 - 5 years down the road. I have too much gear to make quick changes and no real need to. If Pentax ceased to exist tomorrow, I'm still good for 5 years. But that is not going to happen. Ricoh strikes me as being conservative and methodical, no way they have gone this far without delivering a winner.

01-10-2016, 12:31 AM - 1 Like   #24
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The 25 000 000 buck evaluation is largely questionnable... to say the least. It is overly exagerated imho as far as K-1 is concerned. More-over, only production and logistics remain to be financed now for FF, and if you stop the project you will have to fire quite a brunch of employees as well...

As for theta, a simple partnership with Apple could bring the needed Quick Wins : look at what is going on with french Devialet company and its' Phantom luxury speaker ... now in prospect to get visiility in any Apple store.

So, the answer is not K-1 either Theta, but BOTH Ron,

Last edited by Zygonyx; 01-10-2016 at 12:51 AM.
01-10-2016, 12:42 AM   #25
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You are right. They are not going anywhere and they will deliver a winner. The real threat not only to Pentax but all of the traditional DSLR world is mirrorless and Sony. The way to counter that is to innovate but as you know that takes time and costs a lot of money, something Sony has a lot of and the others are struggling to muster up.
01-10-2016, 01:00 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
If Pentax ceased to exist tomorrow, I'm still good for 5 years.
Same here. But I've tasted FF in another brand, and I like it - especially for the high-ISO plasticity. Hopefully Pentax can deliver a good result there, and I get to use all my pre-existing K-mount FF lenses too.
01-10-2016, 01:07 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
The real threat not only to Pentax but all of the traditional DSLR world is mirrorless and Sony.
Not really - MILC is a different tool, not a replacement. There are massive ergonomic issues with the form of current MILC's in many cases. Enthusiasts and professionals in most applications will continue using the dSLR format for a long, long time.

The threat to consumer use of dSLR's (and MILC's) is the smartphone. The camera just keeps getting better.
01-10-2016, 02:04 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Not really - MILC is a different tool, not a replacement. There are massive ergonomic issues with the form of current MILC's in many cases. Enthusiasts and professionals in most applications will continue using the dSLR format for a long, long time.

The threat to consumer use of dSLR's (and MILC's) is the smartphone. The camera just keeps getting better.
You are right on both counts. However, as bad as the ergonomics are on the MILCs such as the Sony 7 series (which I do not like at all), the advantages could make you live with the massive ergonomic shortcomings. Short term DSLRs are going to thrive no question but I think in the long run as the MILCs get better the DSLRs are going to be in trouble.
01-10-2016, 05:22 AM   #29
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Pentax has basically completed the R and D on the K-1 -- the camera is in beta testing for sure and they have a line up of lenses that they are ready to launch as well. It would make no sense to throw that work away on the off chance that they could design some sort of virtual reality device.

I am sure that Pentax is working on other types of cameras behind the scenes -- whether you are talking larger sensored mirrorless, a new generation theta -- they have ideas that they are pitching and deciding if they could get traction in the current market. But no, it makes no sense to shelf the K-1 for a virtual reality device.
01-10-2016, 05:29 AM   #30
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and here I was thinking you would be after an APS-H version, before they release the full format version.

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The coming hype for 2016 and very likely some years to come is Virtual Reality.
you mean how 3D TV was supposed to be the next big thing? look what happened to that. There are tangible health issues surrounding VR, and I think they need to be addressed before everyone starts jumping on the bandwagon.
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