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01-26-2016, 02:24 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Wait - what?!!!! I thought they were Doomed!!
This is about investing in Theta and VR.

---------- Post added 26-01-16 at 22:34 ----------

You can look at the image

https://theta360.com/s/pF4UJT3bg3jgG3oHqeegTQyUC

And you see why the Theta has to get better then thè current model to get on a professional level. But this is great!

01-26-2016, 10:36 PM - 1 Like   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Really? You think the technology is that simple? If so, then why is

a. Nikon's entry such a kluge
b. hasn't Apple implemented this simple application in the iPhone6

Maybe because Ricoh has something unique and hard to do.

I want to invoke the loud invective clause but the thread Pilice would put me out the door for a timeout.
Why Nikon or Apple choose to develop or not certain producs is as much mistery to me as it is to you.

Spherical images and spherical cameras exist for a long time already, most popular use today probably is google street view.

>>Really? You think the technology is that simple?
Technology is always the same, no matter if you use a device with one, two or more cameras. You take a number of overlapping images, then use software to map them to a sphere, stitch them together and display the result. If the device has more than 1 camera it can take all the images in one shot (given that lenses are fisheye/wide enough to cover all the area).

>>Maybe because Ricoh has something unique and hard to do.
If you think there's something different going on inside the Theta, maybe check this: https://zavax.wordpress.com/2015/11/12/teardown-of-ricoh-theta-360-degree-sp...norama-camera/
The cool part (not sure if it is unique) is how they used a mirror/prism to save space and put the sensors on the side of the lens.

Ricoh apparently found a niche (just like GoPro did with their action cameras) by creating a small, simple consumer oriented device by a setup with just 2 cameras.
Only two images to stitch so it is fast to stitch them but then the resolution is also limited compared to the other devices out there that use more cameras.



As to why you cannot use current phones to take one-shot spherical images - some of the technical limitations are:

1. Lens are generally not wide enough since they are meant for selfies and general photography (lphone6 is something like 33mm equiv. if I can trust the internet on this) so you'll need to attach something like this : http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XHRXP4Q?psc=1

2. Front cameras are usually different/even crappier than the back ones, so you'll get better results by just using the back camera taking several pictures in all directions and there are already multiple apps that will then make a 360 or spherical panorama out of it.

3. Most phones can't fire both cameras at the same time.

All of these can/will be fixed if there's sufficient demand, I won't be surprised if someone releases a phone with 2 or more additional fisheye cameras just for this, like for example the Amazon Fire phones have something like 6 cameras in them (although for completely different purpose).
01-27-2016, 01:14 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by npc Quote
Why Nikon or Apple choose to develop or not certain producs is as much mistery to me as it is to you.

Spherical images and spherical cameras exist for a long time already, most popular use today probably is google street view.

>>Really? You think the technology is that simple?
Technology is always the same, no matter if you use a device with one, two or more cameras. You take a number of overlapping images, then use software to map them to a sphere, stitch them together and display the result. If the device has more than 1 camera it can take all the images in one shot (given that lenses are fisheye/wide enough to cover all the area).

>>Maybe because Ricoh has something unique and hard to do.
If you think there's something different going on inside the Theta, maybe check this: https://zavax.wordpress.com/2015/11/12/teardown-of-ricoh-theta-360-degree-sp...norama-camera/
The cool part (not sure if it is unique) is how they used a mirror/prism to save space and put the sensors on the side of the lens.

Ricoh apparently found a niche (just like GoPro did with their action cameras) by creating a small, simple consumer oriented device by a setup with just 2 cameras.
Only two images to stitch so it is fast to stitch them but then the resolution is also limited compared to the other devices out there that use more cameras.



As to why you cannot use current phones to take one-shot spherical images - some of the technical limitations are:

1. Lens are generally not wide enough since they are meant for selfies and general photography (lphone6 is something like 33mm equiv. if I can trust the internet on this) so you'll need to attach something like this : Amazon.com : Universal More Advanced Mobile Phone Clip Fisheye Lens Fish Eye Lens 235 Degree for iPhone Samsung Sony HTC LG Android Phone : Camera & Photo

2. Front cameras are usually different/even crappier than the back ones, so you'll get better results by just using the back camera taking several pictures in all directions and there are already multiple apps that will then make a 360 or spherical panorama out of it.

3. Most phones can't fire both cameras at the same time.

All of these can/will be fixed if there's sufficient demand, I won't be surprised if someone releases a phone with 2 or more additional fisheye cameras just for this, like for example the Amazon Fire phones have something like 6 cameras in them (although for completely different purpose).
Those sensors are small. I think to put image quality up a grade one just can't do with the limitation of just 2 sensors. The sensor's can grow some with this setup. Using 3 sensors, would need a different way of putting lens and sensor modules together making the device bigger.

I wonder why they where so cheap to put in just 4 gb microSD inside. That isn't the most expensive device.

Thanks for the link!
01-27-2016, 03:18 AM   #64
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That Theta 360degree stuff is a novelty, a gimmick, like "fisheye lenses" that have been available for decades, and 3D movies and TV.

Despite enthusiastic re-launches of these technologies over the years, the vast majority of potential consumers just don't want the gimmicks, which will always command only small numbers of committed fans.

01-27-2016, 06:55 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by grahamcoad Quote
Despite enthusiastic re-launches of these technologies over the years, the vast majority of potential consumers just don't want the gimmicks, which will always command only small numbers of committed fans.
I agree. The 3D/spherical tech is fun, and evolving, but it is still way too clunky.
01-27-2016, 07:04 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by grahamcoad Quote
That Theta 360degree stuff is a novelty, a gimmick, like "fisheye lenses" that have been available for decades, and 3D movies and TV.

Despite enthusiastic re-launches of these technologies over the years, the vast majority of potential consumers just don't want the gimmicks, which will always command only small numbers of committed fans.
I agree with you as far as the possible gimmickyness of the Theta. However, as someone else mentioned in another post, it does get a lot of press and attention. My issue is with Ricoh not capitalizing on showing their other wares, namely the DSLR line to the people who come to their booth at a trade show because of all the noise Theta has made.
01-27-2016, 09:39 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by npc Quote
lphone6 is something like 33mm equiv. if I can trust the internet on this
On the iPhone 6, the physical focal length of the lens is 4.15mm, and with a crop factor of 7.2 (1/3" sensor), the equivalent focal length is about 30mm.
01-27-2016, 12:00 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
I agree with you as far as the possible gimmickyness of the Theta. However, as someone else mentioned in another post, it does get a lot of press and attention. My issue is with Ricoh not capitalizing on showing their other wares, namely the DSLR line to the people who come to their booth at a trade show because of all the noise Theta has made.
Well, the Theta might be a gimmick as it is, but a one that consumers seem to like, so being a successful product for Ricoh they might now grow the technology and come up with more serious devices in the future.
As they are more industrial rather than consumer oriented, eventually they might come up with something like this https://www.nctechimaging.com/istar/

01-27-2016, 12:15 PM - 1 Like   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
And you see why the Theta has to get better then thè current model to get on a professional level.
It doesn't have to actually get better to be professional, it just needs a name change; Nikon, Canon, or Sony should work.
01-27-2016, 12:20 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by grahamcoad Quote
That Theta 360degree stuff is a novelty, a gimmick, like "fisheye lenses" that have been available for decades, and 3D movies and TV.

Despite enthusiastic re-launches of these technologies over the years, the vast majority of potential consumers just don't want the gimmicks, which will always command only small numbers of committed fans.
Mounting a crappy vidcam on a snowboard helmet was a gimmick. Hanging one from a drone was a gimmic. A DRONE is a gimmick.
01-27-2016, 01:15 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
It doesn't have to actually get better to be professional, it just needs a name change; Nikon, Canon, or Sony should work.
Doomness, or conspiracy ?
01-27-2016, 01:35 PM - 1 Like   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
It doesn't have to actually get better to be professional, it just needs a name change; Nikon, Canon, or Sony should work.
Or Xiaomi. Anything but Pentax
01-27-2016, 01:39 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Or Xiaomi. Anything but Pentax
Exactly!
01-27-2016, 01:50 PM   #74
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Just think of what is possible.......


A professional Theta. So this needs better image quality. This needs an option to live Broadcast. Put it up in your toeristic town or beachvolleybal and Broadcast live 4k video about how much fun people can expect to come to your place. There is market for. You just need to make the device and show the options.

A good professional Theta is more expensive then a K-1 and you even sell more of them.
01-27-2016, 02:06 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Just think of what is possible.......


A professional Theta. So this needs better image quality. This needs an option to live Broadcast. Put it up in your toeristische town or beachvolleybal and Broadcast live 4k video about how much fun people can expect to come to your place. There is market for. You just need to make the device and show the options.

A good professional Theta is more expensive then a K-1 and you even sell more of them.
Unfortunately it is more complicated than that. The broadcast industry is different than the industrial level equipment vs. the prosumer and consumer world. In broadcast, corporations like Sony, Phillips, and Ikegami have all the business connections built over decades of relationships. For years, other multinational corporations like Matsushita that owns Panasonic, and others like Sharp, JVC, and even Canon, has struggled to break in to be given an opportunity with networks and broadcasters. At best, a small company like Polaroid can sue for patent infringement from what was once a giant, Eastman Kodak, for their instant picture technology.

There is a reason why the Canon T5 outsold in every brick and mortar this past holiday season, and it wasn't because it was a better camera than the K-50 or the T6i over the K-S2. So just making a better Theta won't guarantee any viral growth for Ricoh. As others have posted, change the name from Ricoh to Canon or GoPro and then the same product will get tons of marketing, exposure, reviews, and sales.
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