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01-14-2016, 08:30 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
This is a very valid point, perhaps overlooked in my initial post. Most of my work is static and the only zoom I own is a Sigma 24-35 (which is more like a couple of primes). Lots of what I do takes time to capture the photo so manual focus is also not a problem for me.

I guess my point while there are millions of Pentax lenses out there, most were not designed for digital, or for a sensor of this resolution. All companies who make lenses recognize they need new designs, coating and systems to ensure their glass is not out-resolved by these powerful sensors. (Zeiss has just redesigned it's Milvus and Otus line with this in mind). The lens, next to the sensor, is the most important part of rendering the images we create. (Not excluding technique of course)

From my 40 years of shooting Pentax cameras (I still have my first), the FA Limited (the trio) lenses produced the best results for me. (Not forgetting the wonderful 6 x 7 film images) I can immediately identify a photo I took with one of these lenses versus the others I had in my bag.

I would just welcome the opportunity to see some more of the world's best optics on the platform; and being a fan of Sigma's ART series and Zeiss manual focus lenses they would draw other's to see how the new FF performs.
I am with you. I do not need autofocus for my landscape work either. However, I do need a lens that is sharp across the frame and I do not mind stopping down to F8 or F11 to get it.

These days, most of pro class zooms are so good that they make the primes redundant. I owned the Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC in my Canon days. It is a fantastic lens. Pro class all the way. With the Tamron 24-70, I almost never used my primes covering the same range. The sucker was sharp even at 2.8! Once I get the FF, I would not hesitate to get the Pentax 24-70, especially if it is a rebadged Tamron. It would hurt to have my Three Amigos sit on the shelf collecting dust while the 24-70 is attached to the camera most of the time.

01-14-2016, 08:47 AM   #17
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Pretty sure those lenses will come after the FF comes out. And there already are plenty new FF lenses available: Mitakon, Samyang, Horus Bennu, Schneider Kreuznach, Zenit, Holga, Lensbaby, Vivitar, Venus,.. I think these are all FF Then there are some Tamron and Sigma ones, lots of legacy glass. Some of it is AF, but not all. Often the best stuff (Schneider, Zeiss, specialist and technical lenses like 15mm macro or T/S) is MF only.

It just doesn't make sense for Sigma (for example) to release its most complicated, expensive FF lenses in K-mount when there is not a big base of FF users yet. Third party is waiting for Pentax, then for the market response to Pentax, and then they will make K-mount again. So it mostly depends on how many FF cameras Pentax sells.

Last edited by Na Horuk; 01-14-2016 at 08:52 AM.
01-14-2016, 08:55 AM   #18
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*looks at sig* I think I am okay in terms of FF compatibility.
01-14-2016, 08:56 AM   #19
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Lenses, who needs lenses?

01-14-2016, 09:36 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
over recent years we have (seemingly) lost the support of Sigma and Zeiss for new products.
Zeiss still supports the M42 mount:

Large Image Format Lenses | ZEISS International

"The F-Mount and the M42 Mount are popular standard for high-resolution industrial cameras with large sensor sizes up to 24 x 36 mm"
01-14-2016, 10:14 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
but over recent years we have (seemingly) lost the support of Sigma and Zeiss for new products.
fwiw, zeiss stepped up big time for the sony fe-mount, maybe they'll do it for k-mount, once they see how good the camera is, and how it sells.

of course sony/zeiss have a cross-brand marketing relationship as well, maybe pentax can do the same thing... batis 25/2 in k-mount would fill a huge hole the pentax lineup.
01-14-2016, 10:18 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
large sensor sizes up to 24 x 36 mm"
Evidently they haven't heard of digital Medium Format, LOL.

Those lenses (see cutaway at the link) look like they would give the CLA amateur a case of screaming nightmares, not to mention the wallet of any prospective owner. Still, it's nice to see that my Spotmatics still have options!
01-14-2016, 10:31 AM - 3 Likes   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeodial Quote
I guess my point while there are millions of Pentax lenses out there, most were not designed for digital, or for a sensor of this resolution. All companies who make lenses recognize they need new designs, coating and systems to ensure their glass is not out-resolved by these powerful sensors. (Zeiss has just redesigned it's Milvus and Otus line with this in mind). The lens, next to the sensor, is the most important part of rendering the images we create.
You raise a very good point, and one I am sure Ricoh is well aware of. Despite the old glass faithful Ricoh does need new lenses to support the FF. But I am confident those will be coming. Some are already on the road map.

As to third party support, that is a simple matter of volume. If the market is there third party vendors will support it. In the meantime Pentax seems to be making use of the third party vendors by licensing the 24-70 (and supposedly) the 15-30 designs from Tamron. One report recently stated that the 24-70 was actually being made by Tamron, not just a Tamron design. So if third party lens companies will not support the Pentax FF on their own it seems Pentax is driving that support themselves.

Yes, there are lots of good old glass out there and some of them will be in demand even if modern glass is released. But in the most part that glass appeals only to those who either are on a very small budget, already have the glass, or just love playing with old glass. But for the rest of the world new glass is needed.

And to make things even more complicated Pentax will need a number of 'ranges' of glass not just a single range. They will need a good set of f/2.8 zooms (15-30, 24-70, 70-200) which it seems is almost complete. They will need a less expensive range of f/4 or variable aperture zooms (24-105 f/4, 100-300 f/4-f/5.6). They will need two ranges of primes, the Limited and * range and a less expensive (plastic fantastic) range. And they will also need a set of long primes in the 400mm and 600mm range. But honestly, does anyone think they are not capable of putting all this together over the next three years or so?

The only thing that matters is the sales volume of the FF camera. If you want all that Pentax glass, and third parties to sign on just go out and buy two FF bodies. Easy Peasy.

01-14-2016, 10:37 AM   #24
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^^ This is spot on. Could simply be stated, "Patience, Padawan." *


* I'd write something about good cheer and Ricoh and a plan but sometimes that has an unintended effect.
01-14-2016, 12:03 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
1. There is a good number of Sigma lenses available for use on a Pentax.
The 12-24; 24/1.8; 28/1.8; 35/1.4, 50/1.4, etc..

2. If its to attract new users from changing from other systems to Pentax, and that means using a 3rd party lens like a Sigma, then why not just buy a Sigma for the user's current system?

3. Pentax is unique not for some macho big heavy encumbering lens setup. The smallish primes do provide a uniqueness to the Pentax line
In fact, this and the nice full featured camera bodies with good interface should be emphasized as the selling points.
Yea you got the idea.

however, I don't think we will see a lot of light weight lenses for the new FF. Judging from the size of the new 70-200 which is similar in size, if not a tiny bit bigger, than my Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 VRII. When you add ring motors or linear drives your making the lens bigger. to get rid of all the flare, fringing, coma, etc. also makes them bigger. I think this is one reason why we still see screw drive in a lot of lenses.


It's gonna take a really revolutionary camera with a complete system to support it to get the Canon and Nikon pro's to swap. Canon and Nikon have substantially better flash systems, not to mention incredible support from the strobe manufactures. The way I see it.... we need:

A camera that exceeds Nikon D810/Canon 5Ds capabilities in image quality. 36mp is fine, but the Dynamic range and high-iso noise needs to be better than the other two.
A trio of pro-grade f2.8 zooms covering 16-200mm that can deliver AF speed and accuracy, not to mention overall image quality that matches or exceeds the other two
A wireless flash system with accurate TTL and HSS availability with a standard native sync speed of at least 1/250". not to mention the ability to fire the hot shoe over the native sync speed (even if you get banding)
SUPPORT from all three main third party lens manufactures
SUPPORT from strobe companies like Elinchrome, Profoto, or similar that can provide an HSS strobe solution. Priolite is not distributed widely enough for this.

The third party support is the big one. If pro's who are using their Nikon/Canon cameras with the Sigma Art series, and love those lenses don't see alternatives on Pentax' then they won't swap. If they are strobists and they are used to TTL/HSS of lets say a Profoto B1, it will be harder for them to swap. Just as examples. Why do I focus on these items? Because Wedding, portrait, and Commercial photographers are a HUGE professional market, arguably bigger than any other field like pro landscape, travel, and journalists. Those people always want 3 things: the trio of zooms, fast reliable auto focus, and a reliable TTL flash system.
01-14-2016, 12:05 PM   #26
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Agreed with Jatrax. If the FF doesn't sell -- those lenses either won't happen, or they'll take a million years to happen. It doesn't make sense to have a state of the art beast of a camera, and not have new modern glass to go with it.
01-14-2016, 12:22 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Evidently they haven't heard of digital Medium Format, LOL.

Those lenses (see cutaway at the link) look like they would give the CLA amateur a case of screaming nightmares, not to mention the wallet of any prospective owner. Still, it's nice to see that my Spotmatics still have options!
The page mentions high speed photography in which a 24X36 is a large frame. I do not remember the senor size of the high speed cameras I used to work with but we had Nikon F mount and the sensor was significantly smaller than the Nikon DX format. Those cameras had a top speed of 400 000 fps but did see one that could shoot at one million frames per second. And the cameras cost more than the new Phase One 100MP body


We actually had the mount blown off the camera by a shock wave on on explosive trial.
01-14-2016, 12:49 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
The page mentions high speed photography in which a 24X36 is a large frame.
OK, that puts things in context - missed that. Thanks for the correction.

QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
We actually had the mount blown off the camera by a shock wave on on explosive trial.
You sound like you've got up to some interesting stuff. Is that what the snap, crackle and pop in your signature line refer to?
01-14-2016, 12:58 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote

The third party support is the big one. If pro's who are using their Nikon/Canon cameras with the Sigma Art series, and love those lenses don't see alternatives on Pentax' then they won't swap.
Sigma offers a lens mount conversion service on many of its' Art lenses. Costs only around $150. Pros who are already using these Sigma Art lenses on Nik/Can bodies can also use them on the Pentax full frame after having this mount conversion done.

I sure do wish other lens manufacturers offered a similar lens mount conversion service!
01-14-2016, 12:59 PM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
Sigma offers a lens mount conversion service on many of its' Art lenses. Costs only around $150. Pros who are already using these Sigma Art lenses on Nik/Can bodies can also use them on the Pentax full frame after having this mount conversion done.

I sure do wish other lens manufacturers offered a similar lens mount conversion service!
only if said lens model is already available in that other mount.
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