Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-27-2016, 10:05 PM   #16
Veteran Member
madbrain's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 799
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Forget the AA batteries, that not what you need in a Pro camera. You can argued as hard as you want but that will not happen.
I love my Eneloops but there no place in high end DSLR fronm any brands
Plenty of pro bodies already have a battery grip option which can take AAs. Many use eneloops in their grips on Nikon and Canon, not just Pentax. All I'm asking for is an option inside the body itself, not just the grip. I think AA support in grip is likely going to be there, but probably with 6 rather than 4 AAs.

The LiOn batteries do not last as long and degrade more quickly. This is hard to measure, whereas I can measure my AA batteries easily to see if one is bad - and I can see the actual capacity on my Maha C9000. Something I can't on any Lion battery.

---------- Post added 01-27-16 at 09:15 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
Newer cameras require more power. You don't think all those extra pixels are powered by air, do you? More pixels on sensor have more transistors and thus need more power! Your K30 gets 30% fewer shots than your K200D but has 50% more pixels. You wouldn't get 1000 shots on those batteries in the K-30.
I don't think the sensor is the main reason for the extra power consumption on the K-30 . It's the design that leaves the LCD screen on at all times. Looks like somebody found a way to turn it off, I will have to try it.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/151-pentax-k-30-k-50/231840-turning-off-k...d-display.html

QuoteQuote:
Let's calculate it... The standard Pentax LiOn D-LI90 is a 1860 mAh battery at 7.2V output. That gives you 13.192 Wh.
That's great, and is true for a new battery, but as someone who has driven electric cars with LiOn batteries, I can tell you that their capacity degrades quickly - range diminished quite a bit on my Nissan Leaf after 3 years, to the point that I returned it (it was leased).
I drive a Volt now which has Lion, but with a gas backup, so I won't suffer as much when the battery degrades.
I very much want to see better battery chemistries.

I wish I had a charger equivalent to my Maha C9000 for LiOn batteries, that could display the real battery capacity for all the various Lion batteries that I have for 5 models of smartphones and several cameras. The Maha C9000 can do charge/discharge cycle with the AA and is very nice with its LCD display.

QuoteQuote:
Eneloops, the pros especially, are optimized for high drain usage. They won't give you the full 2550 mAh on slow drain. Cameras are moderate drain, so expect a performance hit on those Pros.
I'll figure out soon enough how many shots I get on the Pros - just got them last weekend (actually Amazon rebranded AA high capacity). I got 16 of them. I'm conditioning them now . The first charge cycle was only 2250 mAh. After conditioning I got several up to 2500+ mAh. Interestingly enough that was with a 100 mA charge/discharge cycle (ie. 25 hours), not high drain at all.

01-27-2016, 10:19 PM   #17
Pentaxian
noelpolar's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goolwa, SA
Posts: 3,068
I was disappointed when I moved from my K200D to K5II that I could not use my AA loops.

That being said, I am subsequently very happy with the battery arrangements of my K5II and K3 and wouldn't consider returning to AA's ever ever ever....

I hope the FF uses the same battery as the K5/3 etc.
01-27-2016, 10:29 PM   #18
Site Supporter
hangman43's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hueytown, Alabama
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,415
QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
I was disappointed when I moved from my K200D to K5II that I could not use my AA loops.

That being said, I am subsequently very happy with the battery arrangements of my K5II and K3 and wouldn't consider returning to AA's ever ever ever....

I hope the FF uses the same battery as the K5/3 etc.
In a way I want the battery to stay the same but I am afraid if it does shot count will go down even more
01-28-2016, 04:16 AM - 3 Likes   #19
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,036
I don't know of any flagship cameras right now that operate using AA batteries. The K3 does have a grip that can take them, but honestly, you get 600 shots out of a OEM batteries, they are rechargeable and take up less space than AA batteries (and the charger is smaller than your standard AA charger) -- not sure what's not to like there. I had always thought it was just a back up -- you're in the deserts of Namibia and there's no electricity, but there is a gas station selling AA batteries. But off the shelf Alkaline AA batteries aren't going to run a modern SLR for more than a few shots, so not much of a back up.


Last edited by Rondec; 01-28-2016 at 08:47 AM.
01-28-2016, 04:56 AM   #20
Pentaxian
noelpolar's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goolwa, SA
Posts: 3,068
QuoteOriginally posted by hangman43 Quote
In a way I want the battery to stay the same but I am afraid if it does shot count will go down even more
I'll mostly use 2 camera bodies (FF and Crop) and like taking one charger and 3 or 4 batteries when heading out for a while.
01-28-2016, 04:56 AM   #21
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,762
QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
I'd really like to see the first gen before imagining what's in store for the second iteration !
True, but the Second Gen is generally when all the bugs from the initial release have been worked out. If they're going to serve us up something new and brilliant that's never been done before, first to the door for full-frame serial number 000001 is first to encounter all the problems. On the other hand, if what they're giving us is a full-frame sensor wrapped up the best of the Pentax we have come to know and love, then base reliability out of the box is likely to be significantly higher.

I would like to see this thing put Pentax back on the top of the heap, if only so that they would be tempted to make an M42 mount version with wide-open metering on SMC Tak lenses (hey, I can dream, can't I? )
01-28-2016, 05:17 AM   #22
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pekin, IL
Posts: 207
I hate to state the obvious here, guys, but you can purchase MORE THAN ONE AA ADAPTER and pre-load them, then "pretend" they're Lithium-Ion batteries. As the post on the first page stated (although the author didn't realize it), you have nearly the same amount of energy in each package -- 4xAA vs. the Pentax Li battery. Especially once you get a little use on lithiums because they decay much faster. NiMH batteries are much longer lasting and because you can charge each cell individually, you can optimize their charge. They're also not subject to "counting loss" problems like Li-Ion batteries (when the coulomb counter gets messed up; I assume Pentax is using "smart" Li-Ion batteries).

Now, if Pentax was willing to take the watt-hour-density "hit" to go Li-FePO4 (iron phosphate), you'd get much greater battery life in a safer package. But I think you still have to use special stickers for shipping because of the Lithium.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't know of any flagship cameras right now that operate using AA batteries. The K3 does have a grip that can take them, but honestly, you get 600 shots out of a OEM batteries, they are rechargeable and take up less space than AA batteries (and the charger is smaller than your standard AA charger) -- not sure what's not to like there. I had always thought it was just a back up -- your in desert of Namibia and there's no electricity, but there is a gas station selling AA batteries. But off the shelf Alkaline AA batteries aren't going to run a modern SLR for more than a few shots, so not much of a back up.
You're not saying that Pentax should copy what every other camera manufacturer does, are you? Sacrilege!

On a more serious note, unless you have the tightest camera bag in existence, the size difference between Pentax's battery and its equivalent in AA's is rather small. I'd rather someone come out with CAPS for the stupid things so I didn't have to worry about either one shorting out when not in my camera. (The same cap should fit both the AA adapter and the Lithium battery.)

I think most manufacturer's fixation with Lithium batteries is profit. They don't like standardized batteries (keep in mind that there are a LOT of different sizes of standard, rechargeable Li-Ion cells one could build a camera around if one was only interested in energy density) because they can be purchased from ANYONE. Not that there aren't knock-offs, but they're far fewer and many people are concerned that they won't handle the "smart" part correctly. By continuing to allow AA usage in their cameras, Pentax is giving their users a CHOICE -- how can that be bad? -- to pay a premium for shorter life and slightly increased energy density, or use standard batteries that will have a much longer life, much lower cost of operation, and NOT REQUIRE A SEPARATE F****** CHARGER FOR EVERY G**-D***ED DEVICE I PURCHASE!
01-28-2016, 05:52 AM - 1 Like   #23
Site Supporter
p38arover's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Western Sydney, Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,078
I've never used the video mode on my cameras, either.

01-28-2016, 05:57 AM   #24
Site Supporter
hangman43's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hueytown, Alabama
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,415
QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
I'll mostly use 2 camera bodies (FF and Crop) and like taking one charger and 3 or 4 batteries when heading out for a while.
That is why I would like it to stay same but also do not believe it would give near the amount shots since the FF is probably going to use more power
01-28-2016, 06:08 AM   #25
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,910
Another 'Pentax should make a camera for ME' thread.

How realistic is it that Pentax will even read this?
Not to mention actually taking heed of the market breaking advises.


Camera is coming soon.
Just save up and get ready to buy one and use it to the best it can do (warts and all)


Of course moving targets and make believe cameras cost nothing.
01-28-2016, 06:09 AM - 1 Like   #26
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,032
Eneloops are for flashes - not for cameras.
01-28-2016, 06:55 AM   #27
Pentaxian
wizofoz's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melbourne, Outer east.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,655
QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
1) support AA batteries in-camera (like the K-30/K-50) . Not in a battery grip. I have never bought a Pentax body that doesn't support AAs in-body, and never will, especially not if I have to pay a lot of money for one.
I only ever had one Pentax camera that did not have a battery grip. If the forthcoming 35mm cam doesn not have BG option I will be flabberghasted. I like that I can insert AA batteries in the grip in an emergency, but I would never rely on them for day to day use.

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
2) no length limit on video recording clips. 30mins is not acceptable.
Make a different version for Europe if you have to due to the tax situation on video cameras. Don't impose the 30min limitation on the rest of the world.
I have never shot a video clip longer than a few minutes and have zero interest in doing so. If I were primarily interested in video, I would probably buy a video camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
3) have a built-in flash . No Flash is not acceptable. I rarely use flash, but I don't want to carry an extra flash for the occasions that I do.
Either keep the astrotracer optional (it's a lot smaller than flash!) or have both flash and astrotracer built-in
Sorry my friend, I disagree. No on board flash is very acceptable to me. I have many flash options I can use if I need to mount them on board. However, if it were me designing the cam I would try to make it with multiple options for the prism mount. different viewfinders, a module one can plug in for flash, one for GPS and wifi, etc..But these are old ideas from film era cams.

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
4) support 4K / 60p video recording . H.265 at high bitrate would be a start, but ideally in a format with more than 8 bit per color channel.
Videos stuff? whatever.

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
5) support UHS-II card speeds (probably required for item #4)
Same as reply for 4

It seems to me we have vastly different needs/wants from any iteration of a Pentax 35mm camera. It may be maybe a generational thing.
01-28-2016, 07:02 AM   #28
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,036
QuoteOriginally posted by fredralphfred Quote
I hate to state the obvious here, guys, but you can purchase MORE THAN ONE AA ADAPTER and pre-load them, then "pretend" they're Lithium-Ion batteries. As the post on the first page stated (although the author didn't realize it), you have nearly the same amount of energy in each package -- 4xAA vs. the Pentax Li battery. Especially once you get a little use on lithiums because they decay much faster. NiMH batteries are much longer lasting and because you can charge each cell individually, you can optimize their charge. They're also not subject to "counting loss" problems like Li-Ion batteries (when the coulomb counter gets messed up; I assume Pentax is using "smart" Li-Ion batteries).

Now, if Pentax was willing to take the watt-hour-density "hit" to go Li-FePO4 (iron phosphate), you'd get much greater battery life in a safer package. But I think you still have to use special stickers for shipping because of the Lithium.
You're not saying that Pentax should copy what every other camera manufacturer does, are you? Sacrilege!

On a more serious note, unless you have the tightest camera bag in existence, the size difference between Pentax's battery and its equivalent in AA's is rather small. I'd rather someone come out with CAPS for the stupid things so I didn't have to worry about either one shorting out when not in my camera. (The same cap should fit both the AA adapter and the Lithium battery.)

I think most manufacturer's fixation with Lithium batteries is profit. They don't like standardized batteries (keep in mind that there are a LOT of different sizes of standard, rechargeable Li-Ion cells one could build a camera around if one was only interested in energy density) because they can be purchased from ANYONE. Not that there aren't knock-offs, but they're far fewer and many people are concerned that they won't handle the "smart" part correctly. By continuing to allow AA usage in their cameras, Pentax is giving their users a CHOICE -- how can that be bad? -- to pay a premium for shorter life and slightly increased energy density, or use standard batteries that will have a much longer life, much lower cost of operation, and NOT REQUIRE A SEPARATE F****** CHARGER FOR EVERY G**-D***ED DEVICE I PURCHASE!
I'm not totally sure about the AA comparison. Are you saying that two AA batteries is the equivalent to one Lithium ion rechargable or are you saying that four AA batteries is the equivalent to a lithium rechargable? The battery grip in the K5/K3 takes six AA batteries and definitely weighs more with those installed than with Lithium battery.

My experience is that Lithium batteries do hold a charge in cold weather better than rechargables. I don't particularly like the multiplicity of batteries, but one can't exactly argue that Pentax is changing them all the time. They have used essentially the same battery in the K7, K5, K5 II, K3 and K3 II. There are plenty of third part knock offs available that are quite cheap. Unfortunately, I imagine that the full frame camera will likely have a larger and different battery from the current Li battery in the K5/K3 cameras, but that isn't unexpected.
01-28-2016, 09:07 AM   #29
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,800
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Unfortunately, I imagine that the full frame camera will likely have a larger and different battery from the current Li battery in the K5/K3 cameras, but that isn't unexpected.
Hopefully it may not need to have a new battery. Fingers crossed - I don't need more batteries and chargers.

Optimistically, while battery energy density might be staying the same, camera chips are getting more power efficient all the time. Every generation of the Milbeaut imaging chip, for example, has made claims to improved energy consumption, and smarter software helps save device energy too. Maybe the old K-3 battery will still do the job!

In the old days, Ricoh made some film SLR's with solar panels built in. Maybe they need to revisit that concept.

01-28-2016, 09:53 AM   #30
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,762
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
In the old days, Ricoh made some film SLR's with solar panels built in.
I'd love to know what the long term service life of these cameras was. Was it an internal battery backed up by LR44s or something like that? Because if not, I can see said internal battery not being forever, and these cameras basically bricking themselves (or at the very best reverting back to an ordinary battery-powered SLR). If you have the button-battery option, OTOH, this is a substantial leap above my XR-1, even with regular power. And there weren't all that many Pentax MF film cameras that could take 3200 ASA film either...
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, acceptable, astrotracer, batteries, battery, body, built-in, camera, cameras, capacity, cycle, eneloops, ff, flash, full-frame, gen pentax, grip, lenses, light, limit, lion, lot, pentax, pros, reason, shots, support, video
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My feature request for Pentax FF MJSfoto1956 Pentax Full Frame 12 10-25-2015 10:50 AM
What is this "New AF groundbreaking feature" on the new Pentax FF camera rumors? RAART Pentax Full Frame 17 06-12-2015 12:59 AM
Is Pentax still asking for feature input on the new FF? mikeodial Pentax News and Rumors 2 02-09-2015 06:42 AM
wish list for next gen. 645 bull drinkwater Pentax Medium Format 23 01-10-2015 12:39 PM
Pentax FF compatible lenses - looking for a list jpzk Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 27 08-23-2010 08:28 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:03 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top