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01-27-2016, 06:19 PM - 1 Like   #1
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My feature request list for the second gen Pentax FF

1) support AA batteries in-camera (like the K-30/K-50) . Not in a battery grip. I have never bought a Pentax body that doesn't support AAs in-body, and never will, especially not if I have to pay a lot of money for one.

2) no length limit on video recording clips. 30mins is not acceptable.
Make a different version for Europe if you have to due to the tax situation on video cameras. Don't impose the 30min limitation on the rest of the world.

3) have a built-in flash . No Flash is not acceptable. I rarely use flash, but I don't want to carry an extra flash for the occasions that I do.
Either keep the astrotracer optional (it's a lot smaller than flash!) or have both flash and astrotracer built-in

4) support 4K / 60p video recording . H.265 at high bitrate would be a start, but ideally in a format with more than 8 bit per color channel.

5) support UHS-II card speeds (probably required for item #4)

01-27-2016, 06:24 PM - 2 Likes   #2
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TTL flash, decrippled mount and base ISO = 25.
01-27-2016, 06:34 PM   #3
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Here are my own opinions,
1 - AA batteries, low importance, do not waste time on this application.
2 - 30 minutes is enough for the majority. Making a different version could reduce the effort put on other parts.
3 - Small flash somewhere is a good idea. Even fixed would be better than none.
4 - Definitely the problem here. I do not want to buy a Canon with Magic Lantern to be able to do good video on the cheap. We have the processing power (I think), sealed bodies, the lenses, the batteries, the will to use it... most improvement should be in this section. For all current cameras via firmware... I am dreaming on that last part. I would rather have high bitrate 1080 than crappy 4K for marketing purposes.
5 - As stated, if need for previous point.
5 -
01-27-2016, 06:35 PM - 1 Like   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
1) support AA batteries in-camera (like the K-30/K-50) . Not in a battery grip. I have never bought a Pentax body that doesn't support AAs in-body, and never will, especially not if I have to pay a lot of money for one.
AA batteries are great...if you love changing them every 200 shots.

01-27-2016, 06:37 PM - 6 Likes   #5
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Second gen? We haven't even see the first yet!

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01-27-2016, 06:42 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
AA batteries are great...if you love changing them every 200 shots.
Your perception is not reality.

A set of 4 Sanyo eneloops lasted over 1000 shots in my K200D . It's less in the K-30 due to the LCD being on more without a way to truly disable it. Maybe 700 shots.
I just got some eneloop XX which should increase capacity by 25%.

I have some 8 year old original eneloops that are still good. Can't say I have any LiOn battery for any camera that is still good, unfortunately.

---------- Post added 01-27-16 at 05:43 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Second gen? We haven't even see the first yet!
I know, but I'm pretty sure all my wishes won't all come true in the first one.

Plus, you know what they say about buying version 1.0 of anything .
01-27-2016, 06:56 PM   #7
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You will never see a FF with AA batteries or for that matter any DSLR beyond entry level with them no matter how hard you wish it to be
01-27-2016, 07:02 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by SuperSyx Quote
Here are my own opinions,
1 - AA batteries, low importance, do not waste time on this application.
For you, but don't discard the needs of others. I came to Pentax because of the AA batteries first, and built-in SR second. IMO Pentax would be foolish to completely abandon AAs, as they have done recently in the K-S1 / K-S2 .

QuoteQuote:
2 - 30 minutes is enough for the majority. Making a different version could reduce the effort put on other parts.
There is no technical reason for the 30 minute limit - it's strictly there for tax reason in Europe. Same reason why all cell phones have this limit.
It makes no sense to me that you can buy a $300 camcorder without this length limit, but with pisspoor video quality, but a $2000 - $3000 full-frame DSLR with high quality video has to have this limit.

FYI, at least one company is paying attention to this :
Panasonic's GH4R Finally Kills the 30-Minute Video Limit - Reviewed.com Cameras

I hope Pentax follows through with this, even if it's through a separate firmware update.

FYI, I bought a $1000 Sony FDR-AX33 camcorder last year which does 4K / 30 fps continuous video recording. The video quality just wasn't good enough due to the sensor size. Indoor, it was not an improvement over my 8 year old HD camcorder. I returned it. I think the camera had some autofocusing issues indoor.
I want something better than that, and I need continuous recording for music . Especially because the Pentax DSLRs have a mirror slap noise at the end of the 30 mins - so even if you have a second video camera to take over, just having the Pentax present will ruin the audio.

QuoteQuote:
3 - Small flash somewhere is a good idea. Even fixed would be better than none.
Exactly.

QuoteQuote:
4 - Definitely the problem here. I do not want to buy a Canon with Magic Lantern to be able to do good video on the cheap. We have the processing power (I think), sealed bodies, the lenses, the batteries, the will to use it... most improvement should be in this section. For all current cameras via firmware... I am dreaming on that last part. I would rather have high bitrate 1080 than crappy 4K for marketing purposes.
I don't think we really have the processing power yet in current cameras, as much as I would love to see it come through a firmware update.
There are very few cameras on the market that do 4K / 60fps video recording. I don't know if there is any in the < $3000 range . I think this will need new chipsets. This is the main reason why I don't think we will see this feature in the first gen Pentax FF . All my other feature requests could be implemented easily, if Pentax chose to do so.

QuoteQuote:
5 - As stated, if need for previous point.
The UHS-II support might actually be in the first gen FF, though. Who knows.

The following is a pretty old list - from 2014 - and there are 3 cameras on it that support UHS-II - Panasonic GH4, Fujifilm XT-1, Samsung NX-1 .
https://www.pretzellogix.net/2014/10/24/a-list-of-all-uhs-ii-sd-cards-readers-and-cameras/

UHS-II wouldn't just benefit high-bitrate video, but may allow higher FPS for stills too.

---------- Post added 01-27-16 at 06:12 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by hangman43 Quote
You will never see a FF with AA batteries or for that matter any DSLR beyond entry level with them no matter how hard you wish it to be
Do you work for Pentax to be able to say this so categorically ? I doubt even their marketing department knows what will be in all their future cameras. Never is a pretty long time.

AA has been a differentiating point on Pentax cameras, just like in-body SR, and weather sealing. It doesn't cost much to implement.

The main argument against having AA support is the volume it adds to the camera. This is actually more of an issue on a lower-end small body like the K-S1 / K-S2 where volume is an issue, and Pentax took it out.

An FF camera is larger than APS-C by definition, so the argument for not having AA support is less compelling on an FF body. Frankly, I think the K-r / K-30 / K-50 have the best of both worlds, since they support both LiOn and K-30 which makes everyone happy. But they could do even better - have a larger size LiON battery in the FF body - one as large as 4 AAs - or allow 4 AAs in a rectangular pattern (not angled like the K-r/K-30/K-50). And do away with the AA adapter requirement too. That, or allow for two smaller Li-on batteries in body, without a grip, or 4 AAs. There are plenty of things they can do, if they want to innovate, and this sort of innovation doesn't cost much.


Last edited by madbrain; 01-27-2016 at 07:13 PM.
01-27-2016, 07:14 PM - 1 Like   #9
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I have not missed using AA batteries at all it is much easier to carry four LiON than 16 AA's
I have not used my pop up flash on any of my DSLR's since my K-m
Have not used video on any of my DSLR's
UHS-II will not matter unless the incorporate more processing power because as of right now K-3 can not write fast enough to reach fastest UHS-1
01-27-2016, 07:20 PM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
TTL flash
This.


QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
decrippled mount
And this.

QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
and base ISO = 25
And also this.
01-27-2016, 07:25 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangman43 Quote
I have not missed using AA batteries at all it is much easier to carry four LiON than 16 AA's
That's great for you - not everyone has the same needs.
If you buy eneloop or eneloop XX, 16AA provide more capacity than 4 LiON, and have a much longer life also.
I don't know exactly how many eneloop / eneloop XX correspond to one LiON. Maybe 3.

I admit the AAs are not as easy to change in the field as LiOn. I bought extra AA adapters for the K-30 to solve that.

QuoteQuote:
I have not used my pop up flash on any of my DSLR's since my K-m
I rarely use it, but it does come handy when I need it. Most will miss it once in a while.

QuoteQuote:
Have not used video on any of my DSLR's
That probably puts you in the the minority. Again, just because you don't need this feature doesn't mean others don't.
DSLRs can make great video cameras.
I probably don't use 30% of the features in my K-30 - I stick to P mode almost all the time, or video mode. Pretty much don't use any of the other modes.
But I'm not asking for those other modes to be taken away. I'm sure others use them. I don't think the things I'm asking for are costly for Pentax to implement, except #4.

QuoteQuote:
UHS-II will not matter unless the incorporate more processing power because as of right now K-3 can not write fast enough to reach fastest UHS-1
I think more processing power is a given on the FF. Just how much more is the unknown. I wouldn't be completely surprised to see UHS-II support in the first FF.
01-27-2016, 07:30 PM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Your perception is not reality.

A set of 4 Sanyo eneloops lasted over 1000 shots in my K200D . It's less in the K-30 due to the LCD being on more without a way to truly disable it. Maybe 700 shots.
I just got some eneloop XX which should increase capacity by 25%.
Newer cameras require more power. You don't think all those extra pixels are powered by air, do you? More pixels on sensor have more transistors and thus need more power! Your K30 gets 30% fewer shots than your K200D but has 50% more pixels. You wouldn't get 1000 shots on those batteries in the K-30.

Let's calculate it... The standard Pentax LiOn D-LI90 is a 1860 mAh battery at 7.2V output. That gives you 13.192 Wh.

The Eneloop Pros are 2550mAh but only 1.5V each. That increases the voltage to 6V because the batteries are connected in series but (and this is important) the mAh do not add. The batteries function as capacitors when in series, basically. (That's really not right, but the currents don't add just like capacitors. And the batteries are not backups of each other because you need all 4 to get enough voltage.) So that gives you 15.3 Wh. If you step down to normal Eneloops, which are 2000 mAh, you only get 12 Wh. With normal AA batteries, you get even less.

Basically, unless you're using Eneloop pros, you will get fewer shots on the AAs than the LiOn. But that assumes current draw doesn't matter....

Eneloops, the pros especially, are optimized for high drain usage. They won't give you the full 2550 mAh on slow drain. Cameras are moderate drain, so expect a performance hit on those Pros.

Last edited by MadMathMind; 01-27-2016 at 09:12 PM. Reason: Typos and general sloppiness
01-27-2016, 07:31 PM   #13
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Forget the AA batteries, that not what you need in a Pro camera. You can argued as hard as you want but that will not happen.
I love my Eneloops but there no place in high end DSLR fronm any brands
01-27-2016, 07:55 PM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
1) support AA batteries in-camera (like the K-30/K-50) . Not in a battery grip. I have never bought a Pentax body that doesn't support AAs in-body, and never will, especially not if I have to pay a lot of money for one.

2) no length limit on video recording clips. 30mins is not acceptable.
Make a different version for Europe if you have to due to the tax situation on video cameras. Don't impose the 30min limitation on the rest of the world.

3) have a built-in flash . No Flash is not acceptable. I rarely use flash, but I don't want to carry an extra flash for the occasions that I do.
Either keep the astrotracer optional (it's a lot smaller than flash!) or have both flash and astrotracer built-in

4) support 4K / 60p video recording . H.265 at high bitrate would be a start, but ideally in a format with more than 8 bit per color channel.

5) support UHS-II card speeds (probably required for item #4)
Wow !
I'd really like to see the first gen before imagining what's in store for the second iteration !
01-27-2016, 09:51 PM - 1 Like   #15
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You removed the Facepaw and Facepaw+ pictures.
One would be applicable here
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