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02-22-2016, 01:36 PM - 1 Like   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
I'd be willing to bet that the answer to the following is already present somewhere within the various relevant threads, but there would be too much reading to locate it. So here goes:

I only shot one brief video with my Pentax K-5, and that was as a test only. It looked fine to me as a casual review on my laptop. So I'd like to know what are the minimum video specs that would be satisfactory to those who consider video performance important? And, from the perspective of quality only (i.e. as distinct from ergonomics, usability, etc), are the current specs really inadequate in practical terms?
I can only speak for myself... SR is important to how I shoot, Pentax has good SR, but doesn't let users use it in cameras launched after the K-5. I have a K-5, so I am happy, but I would like to get a newer Pentax. Can't, cause they don't offer it.

I also want high bitrate videos as an option. MJPEG is fine, though a good high bitrate implementation of h264 is fine too.

LOG mode would be nice to have... or at least a pretty flat picture profile that preserves the dynamic range of the sensor.

4K video is nice to have, not exactly a must have though... at this point. Few years down the road it may very well be, so having it now already is a plus (no need to buy a new camera few years down the road). No aliasing and moire is more important though... the K-1 could very well have that.

I want the ergonomics of a DSLR. That's why I am quite impressed with the Panasonic G7. It feels like a real camera. The GX8 isn't exactly the shape I like, though maybe it's not too bad. I do have a soft spot for those Fujis... However I thought the SR doesn't work during video? Something like that. Perhaps I'm mixing up things, or they fixed it in the firmware, as Olympus did IIRC.

The NX500 doesn't have SR, so it has to be in the lens. At that point I'd be limited to a handful of expensive Samsung lenses, and I'm much more into the NX1. But it's the same problem as with Pentax. No future. Investing in a dead system is difficult.

The a6300 in the K-3 body would be a dream. As in, K-3 user interface (without the video limits artificially imposed by Pentax), K-3 ergonomics, K-3 body and stabilization (also during video). Processor and sensor from the a6300. The a6300 as it is just doesn't appeal to me. I hate the way you use Sony's mirrorless cameras. And the shape of them and everything.

02-22-2016, 05:10 PM   #107
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UHD@30fps 4K....the recently announced Ricoh WG-M2, may be a good companion to the K1?....waterproof/shockproof and a GO PRO competitor at $296.95
02-22-2016, 05:29 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I remember your videos - great stuff! It doesn't seem like you want FF for shallow DOF but rather for light gathering. Since you are in a controlled environment I'd suggest lights. LED panels are cheap; 85 watt CFL soft boxes are even cheaper.

A pair of used Panasonic GH2s using old Pentax M primes plus a pair of CFL soft boxes and you'd have a killer HD setup for less than a grand. If you wanted 4k/60FPS though you'd have to step up to the GH4
Thanks. The noise is caused in part by the sensor, and in other part by low bitrate. Adding a GH2 may be a good option. Looks like they are not too expensive.
I read that the GH2 still has the 30 min limit however- though there are hacks to remove it, but apparently not in 1080i (30fps) mode.

Somebody else in the "non-Pentax" forum also mentioned the GF2 which is even cheaper and has hacks for higher bitrate/continuous recording as well. The proper K-mount -> m4/3 adapter with aperture ring costs about as much as that camera...

---------- Post added 02-22-16 at 04:30 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by CDW Quote
The GH4 records 4K/4K Cinema at 30/24 fps. 60 fps is not available for 4K shooting.
Right. The GH4 does 1080/60fps or 4k/30fps. Maybe the GH5 will do 4k/60fps . No announcement yet.

---------- Post added 02-22-16 at 04:37 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
UHD@30fps 4K....the recently announced Ricoh WG-M2, may be a good companion to the K1?....waterproof/shockproof and a GO PRO competitor at $296.95
Apples and oranges.

The sensor size is much smaller. I couldn't find the specs on what it is exactly in the WG-M2 .
Assuming it's the same as WG-M1, it is 1/2.3" which is 6.17 x 4.55 mm or 28 sq mm.
Full frame is 36 x 24 or 864 sq mm.
Ie. the K-1 sensor area is 30.8 times as large than the WG-M2 sensor.

FYI, I actually tried a Sony FDR-AX33 camcorder that had a 1/2.3" sensor and found the video picture much too noisy indoors. I ended up returning it.

The WG-M2 has a fixed ultra wide angle lens, also, which is not what I want to use.

I do like that the WG-M2 has continuous recording and 100 Mbps, though.

---------- Post added 02-22-16 at 04:52 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
So I'd like to know what are the minimum video specs that would be satisfactory to those who consider video performance important? And, from the perspective of quality only (i.e. as distinct from ergonomics, usability, etc), are the current specs really inadequate in practical terms?
I can only speak for myself also.

- In terms of quality, yes, IMO, the current specs are really inadequate. My 2008 vintage Canon HG21 camcorder can record 1080i in H.264 at 24 Mbps.
My Pentax K-30 can record 1080i in H.264 at 22 Mbps.
It looks like the K-1 will be the same H.264 22 Mbps bit rate as the K-30 .
It makes no sense that the bit rate is so low while the sensor size is so much bigger, and optics also potentially much better depending on the lens used.

- 4GB recording limit makes no sense in 2016 . The 4GB limit means 16 min max recording limit time on my K-30. That is too short.

- Most 2016 vintage cameras >$1500 can do 1080 at 60fps , not 30fps . And many much cheaper than that can too. My cell phone can do 1080/60fps, for 10 minutes.

- many cameras can to 4k at 30fps nowadays. Even my cell phone camera can, for 5 minutes.

Last edited by madbrain; 02-22-2016 at 05:38 PM.
02-22-2016, 06:53 PM   #109
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oranges are nice!

02-22-2016, 08:31 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Thanks. The noise is caused in part by the sensor, and in other part by low bitrate. Adding a GH2 may be a good option. Looks like they are not too expensive.
I read that the GH2 still has the 30 min limit however- though there are hacks to remove it, but apparently not in 1080i (30fps) mode.

Somebody else in the "non-Pentax" forum also mentioned the GF2 which is even cheaper and has hacks for higher bitrate/continuous recording as well. The proper K-mount -> m4/3 adapter with aperture ring costs about as much as that camera...

---------- Post added 02-22-16 at 04:30 PM ----------



Right. The GH4 does 1080/60fps or 4k/30fps. Maybe the GH5 will do 4k/60fps . No announcement yet.[COLOR="Silver"]
My GH2s are hacked, but before hacking it I was able to record well over an hour without overheating and without killing the battery. If anything, the hacks made the camera less stable and less reliable to longer recording. So I'd look for an unhacked GH2 and add some CFL softboxes to keep the ISO below 800. That should not be too hard at 24FPS at 1/50 or 30FPS at 1/60.

I had a GF2 as well. I never hacked it for video, but it was not nearly as good as the GH2. Again, hacking may make it less stable for longer shots.

Based on your videos that I've seen, I'm not sure of the benefits of 60FPS, unless you play some pieces quite rapidly and you want you hands to remain sharp. Remember that if you want to keep the 180 degree shutter you'll be at 1/120s shutter speed and will need more light.
02-23-2016, 12:16 AM   #111
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Check out Ricohs 4k video on YOUTUBE...definitely impressive! Underwater, snow skiing, kite boarding,cycling,windsurfing.
02-23-2016, 11:55 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Check out Ricohs 4k video on YOUTUBE...definitely impressive! Underwater, snow skiing, kite boarding,cycling,windsurfing.
What do you mean?

I checked the EOSHD forum, and there is actually a thread about the K-1. People are interested in the camera, and really excited about IBIS. Wondering if it works for video. If it did, I'm sure there'd be buyers. The 60i won't keep them away. Or the 1080p only. They were already asking for the lens mount, if they can adapt their Canon lenses, etc.
02-23-2016, 02:27 PM   #113
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what I mean IS, if you read the previous comments, you could look @ Ricoh's first attempt at 4K video


so open up youtube and do a search for Ricoh WG-M2 and have a look at something MORE exciting( to me, but only slightly) than the K1


statements about Ricoh NOT being interested in video have just been put to rest


as time goes on it will filter through to the rest of the range


and possibly soon on Qs, even though the present sensor is a different size


02-23-2016, 03:59 PM   #114
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IIRC the MX-1 had proper SR in video mode. Yet that never popped up in subsequent cameras from Pentax.

I will believe it when I see it in a DSLR. The WG-M2 could be based on some off the shelf hardware that does have 4K, but it may not be hardware that will ever make it's way into a DSLR.
02-23-2016, 04:37 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
what I mean IS, if you read the previous comments, you could look @ Ricoh's first attempt at 4K video


so open up youtube and do a search for Ricoh WG-M2 and have a look at something MORE exciting( to me, but only slightly) than the K1


statements about Ricoh NOT being interested in video have just been put to rest


as time goes on it will filter through to the rest of the range


and possibly soon on Qs, even though the present sensor is a different size
Well, they clearly didn't care to improve video on the K-1 . I hope you are right that it will filter through the rest of the range. But a shame it didn't make it to this first FF attempt.

I watched the WG-M2 videos - not really impressed. The 4K snowboarding videos look to be worse quality than the underwater 1080p/60 videos .
02-23-2016, 04:38 PM   #116
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as time goes by ...its inevitable....it will filter though to the rest of the range


otherwise market share will shrink and with Ricoh intent on being up there with the so called bigger brands then they will have to have the 4K feature( maybe they jump straight to 8K?) in the whole range


"time" being the variable that we cant define

---------- Post added 02-24-16 at 10:41 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Well, they clearly didn't care to improve video on the K-1 . I hope you are right that it will filter through the rest of the range. But a shame it didn't make it to this first FF attempt.

I watched the WG-M2 videos - not really impressed. The 4K snowboarding videos look to be worse quality than the underwater 1080p/60 videos .


What did you watch them on?
02-24-2016, 12:27 AM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
as time goes by ...its inevitable....it will filter though to the rest of the range


otherwise market share will shrink and with Ricoh intent on being up there with the so called bigger brands then they will have to have the 4K feature( maybe they jump straight to 8K?) in the whole range


"time" being the variable that we cant define

---------- Post added 02-24-16 at 10:41 AM ----------





What did you watch them on?
I love your optimism, but we're talking about Pentax here. It's not the first time they've missed the market and got left behind. Remember that they used to be a big deal in the camera business. Also, all other manufacturers, including Leica, have noticed the value of video and work on it. It might be that that will never happen with Pentax. They seem to see video as a consumer thing, and not a pro thing. That's why cameras like that GoPro clone has 4K.
02-24-2016, 01:17 AM   #118
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Yes, I can remember when Pentax where THE brand in the camera shop windows...spot matics were popular, even the beatles used them!


I don't recall them having great video in those days either


PENTAX/Ricoh is a different entity to P/Hoya....at times in business it can take some time to change direction


this week was 2 impressive announcements...and I'm optimistic about next week


not so optimistic though having just learned the 70/200 price...more than the body


markets are funny things too....big volumes/small margins....small volumes big margins or a balance between the 2....


ricoh/Pentax started with a niche which I think will expand ...
02-24-2016, 12:02 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
I don't recall them having great video in those days either
Well, yes. Back in those days video and stills were pretty much separated. The 35mm film had things in common with stills, but that was for pros only.

Anyway, as an example why having good video capabilities would be nice:

https://vimeo.com/channels/mercedesbenz/156395271

Shot on a Sony A7S II. It might as well have been a Pentax, they are only showing it in 1080p anyway, and apart from one slow motion shot at the end there's probably nothing in the video that a (software) upgraded K-1 couldn't do... except for the low light stuff. We'll have to see how good it is. Plus they could have gotten shots they didn't because Pentax WR is so good. Shoots like this would be perfect for the K-1. Doing stills, doing videos, and traveling light without much gear. The K-1 is basically that A7S II with a mirror but without the 4K. Or it could be. No other DSLR would be as suitable for things like this than the K-1, because all the others would require gimbals etc., and the K-1 doesn't (again, if they'd activate SR).

https://slate.adobe.com/cp/aSZ44/

There's a travel log of them shooting the whole thing. Worth reading/looking at, even if only for the nice stills they shot... probably with the same camera (though a Canon 5D Mk III also appears... looks like that was used for time lapses).

People still use DSLRs and DSLR-alikes for professional videos, and it makes sense. Pentax could sell more cameras.
02-24-2016, 12:25 PM   #120
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I was referring to 1960s...lol....the TV stations had monstrous video TAPE cameras( late 60s in orstralia)


Consumers had to shoot moving pictures on 8mm film...Pros used 16mm
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Pentax could sell more cameras.

Yes, with a 4K dslr ! (K1 second edition, the engineers must be working on it now)
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