K-1 and pixel shift

Gimbal · 02-05-2016, 06:49 AM

It seems as the new K-1 will have a pixel shift function and that we are all exited about that, and so am I.

But the K3 II has had the function for about a year now and still there is almost no examples of pixel shifted photos to be found anywhere. Imaging-resources has some very nice test shoots, but other then that... almost nothing.

Isn't that kind of strange?

**Rondec** · 02-05-2016, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

It seems as the new K-1 will have a pixel shift function and that we are all exited about that, and so am I.

But the K3 II has had the function for about a year now and still there is almost no examples of pixel shifted photos to be found anywhere. Imaging-resources has some very nice test shoots, but other then that... almost nothing.

Isn't that kind of strange?

The problem with pixel shift is that it requires a completely still scene and yes, there have been some examples that were pretty impressive. Ed (Qwntm) started a thread that turned into a big argument in which he compared a 6D and K3 II pixel shifted scene shot on different days. His impression was that a K3 II pixel shift image is just short of a D800 in terms of color depth and ability to process it.

My feeling is that a lot of folks skipped the K3 II due to the realization that full frame is coming and they need to save their shekels in preparation. I know it was that way for me.

There is a way now to post process these images and remove the artifacts with some software application that I wasn't familiar with, but I haven't investigated it further since I don't own a K3 II.

DeadJohn · 02-05-2016, 08:42 AM

Pixel shift is only useful in a limited set of circumstances, and you won't see the benefits with online samples because even a basic 24mp image without pixel shift far exceeds the resolution of displays. Studio shots that get printed at 24x30 or larger might show benefits from pixel shift.

FantasticMrFox · 02-05-2016, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

It seems as the new K-1 will have a pixel shift function and that we are all exited about that, and so am I.

But the K3 II has had the function for about a year now and still there is almost no examples of pixel shifted photos to be found anywhere. Imaging-resources has some very nice test shoots, but other then that... almost nothing.

What DeadJohn said, plus - who says that there are no examples of pixel shifted photos to be found anywhere? There might be thousands, but the only way to tell is if the person publishing the image mentions it in the description.

**vcollerp** · 02-05-2016, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by DeadJohn

Pixel shift is only useful in a limited set of circumstances, and you won't see the benefits with online samples because even a basic 24mp image without pixel shift far exceeds the resolution of displays. Studio shots that get printed at 24x30 or larger might show benefits from pixel shift.

Agree, have a look at these OOC jpegs just downsized without sharpening and they look way over sharpened.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/121475335@N07/albums/72157652504976384

Gimbal · 02-05-2016, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by DeadJohn

Pixel shift is only useful in a limited set of circumstances, and you won't see the benefits with online samples because even a basic 24mp image without pixel shift far exceeds the resolution of displays. Studio shots that get printed at 24x30 or larger might show benefits from pixel shift.

Yes I know all about it. The pictures has be to full size or 100% crops and one needs to zoom in real close, and there has to be very fine details if one shall be able to see any difference at all. But I enjoy pixel peeping so that is not a problem.

However, I don't find that many examples that I can check out.

DeadJohn · 02-05-2016, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by vcollerp

Agree, have a look at these OOC jpegs just downsized without sharpening and they look way over sharpened.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/121475335@N07/albums/72157652504976384

They don't look oversharpened to me. I usually see halos and weird shadows from oversharpening. Flickr is only letting me see the images at 2048 x 1138 maximum resolution. That's 2 megapixels so any gains from pixel shift are getting wiped out by resizing.

I do see what could be a pixel shift artifact in https://www.flickr.com/photos/121475335@N07/18993161442/in/album-72157652504976384/. Zoom in on the wind sock just above the center of the image.

Adam · 02-05-2016, 10:46 AM

There are two things that more or less prevent the pixel shifting tech from being mainstream: the limited use cases and the fact that super resolution can be achieved by manually combining standard files taken with just about any camera.

Still, the potential of the in-camera pixel shifting is huge for certain types of users

**vcollerp** · 02-05-2016, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Adam

There are two things that more or less prevent the pixel shifting tech from being mainstream: the limited use cases and the fact that super resolution can be achieved by manually combining standard files taken with just about any camera.

Still, the potential of the in-camera pixel shifting is huge for certain types of users

By shifting the camera one pixel between every shot?

cfraz · 02-05-2016, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Adam

There are two things that more or less prevent the pixel shifting tech from being mainstream: the limited use cases and the fact that super resolution can be achieved by manually combining standard files taken with just about any camera.

Still, the potential of the in-camera pixel shifting is huge for certain types of users

Is the elimination of the Bayer filter de-mosaicing step (which can't be done with multiple exposures in other cameras) of no value then, in your experience?

Pentax's pixel shift method produces an image with direct capture of all three colors at each pixel location to avoid the normal Bayer filter interpolation (guessing) of two of three colors at each pixel. I would have thought that would yield noticeably improved results beyond just stacking multiple exposures.

Gimbal · 02-05-2016, 03:50 PM

I guess Adam ment stitching, and not multi exposure.

**tduell** · 02-05-2016, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Gimbal

I guess Adam ment stitching, and not multi exposure.

You can produce super resolution from multiple shots using software to generate the result, but I would make a distinction between super resolution and pixel shift. SR still relies on demosaicing and the inherent interpolation to arrive at the R, G and B for each pixel, whereas PS captures the actual R, G and B for each pixel and no interpolation.

Cheers,
Terry

SciFiGuy · 02-05-2016, 10:46 PM

To me the color rendition of these pixel shifted aircraft is exceptional. And that quality isn't changed by the lower resolution of the photos on Flickr.

dylansalt · 02-07-2016, 04:31 AM

I suppose pixel-shift would only be useful where everything is absolutely still and where the resolution was required?

RonHendriks1966 · 02-07-2016, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

It seems as the new K-1 will have a pixel shift function and that we are all exited about that, and so am I.

But the K3 II has had the function for about a year now and still there is almost no examples of pixel shifted photos to be found anywhere. Imaging-resources has some very nice test shoots, but other then that... almost nothing.

Isn't that kind of strange?

It's not strange. For several reasons. It was a gimmick to start with. There was no user base request for it. It has limited use in practice. If you need better image quality for the use it could be for then you could just buy a D810 and be done with one click.

02-05-2016, 06:49 AM	#1
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	K-1 and pixel shift It seems as the new K-1 will have a pixel shift function and that we are all exited about that, and so am I. But the K3 II has had the function for about a year now and still there is almost no examples of pixel shifted photos to be found anywhere. Imaging-resources has some very nice test shoots, but other then that... almost nothing. Isn't that kind of strange?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Questions re: K-3 II pixel shift and Astrotracer	gazelle01	Pentax K-3 & K-3 II	102	03-06-2017 06:23 PM
Pixel shift in Lightroom and ACR!	08amczb	Digital Processing, Software, and Printing	14	08-02-2015 10:30 PM
K-3 II Pixel shift for Macro?	Omestes	Pentax K-3 & K-3 II	6	06-12-2015 08:13 PM
SR and Pixel Shift Technology	C_Jones	Pentax K-3 & K-3 II	9	05-10-2015 06:24 AM
Pixel shift and bracketing	Spodeworld	Pentax K-3 & K-3 II	9	04-23-2015 08:56 PM

02-05-2016, 06:54 AM	#2
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by Gimbal It seems as the new K-1 will have a pixel shift function and that we are all exited about that, and so am I. But the K3 II has had the function for about a year now and still there is almost no examples of pixel shifted photos to be found anywhere. Imaging-resources has some very nice test shoots, but other then that... almost nothing. Isn't that kind of strange? The problem with pixel shift is that it requires a completely still scene and yes, there have been some examples that were pretty impressive. Ed (Qwntm) started a thread that turned into a big argument in which he compared a 6D and K3 II pixel shifted scene shot on different days. His impression was that a K3 II pixel shift image is just short of a D800 in terms of color depth and ability to process it. My feeling is that a lot of folks skipped the K3 II due to the realization that full frame is coming and they need to save their shekels in preparation. I know it was that way for me. There is a way now to post process these images and remove the artifacts with some software application that I wasn't familiar with, but I haven't investigated it further since I don't own a K3 II.

02-05-2016, 08:42 AM	#3
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,834	Pixel shift is only useful in a limited set of circumstances, and you won't see the benefits with online samples because even a basic 24mp image without pixel shift far exceeds the resolution of displays. Studio shots that get printed at 24x30 or larger might show benefits from pixel shift.

02-05-2016, 08:53 AM	#4
FantasticMrFox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Munich Posts: 2,339	Originally posted by Gimbal It seems as the new K-1 will have a pixel shift function and that we are all exited about that, and so am I. But the K3 II has had the function for about a year now and still there is almost no examples of pixel shifted photos to be found anywhere. Imaging-resources has some very nice test shoots, but other then that... almost nothing. What DeadJohn said, plus - who says that there are no examples of pixel shifted photos to be found anywhere? There might be thousands, but the only way to tell is if the person publishing the image mentions it in the description.

02-05-2016, 09:08 AM	#5
vcollerp Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Vereeniging South Africa Posts: 208	Originally posted by DeadJohn Pixel shift is only useful in a limited set of circumstances, and you won't see the benefits with online samples because even a basic 24mp image without pixel shift far exceeds the resolution of displays. Studio shots that get printed at 24x30 or larger might show benefits from pixel shift. Agree, have a look at these OOC jpegs just downsized without sharpening and they look way over sharpened. https://www.flickr.com/photos/121475335@N07/albums/72157652504976384

02-05-2016, 10:25 AM	#6
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106 Original Poster	Originally posted by DeadJohn Pixel shift is only useful in a limited set of circumstances, and you won't see the benefits with online samples because even a basic 24mp image without pixel shift far exceeds the resolution of displays. Studio shots that get printed at 24x30 or larger might show benefits from pixel shift. Yes I know all about it. The pictures has be to full size or 100% crops and one needs to zoom in real close, and there has to be very fine details if one shall be able to see any difference at all. But I enjoy pixel peeping so that is not a problem. However, I don't find that many examples that I can check out.

02-05-2016, 10:31 AM	#7
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,834	Originally posted by vcollerp Agree, have a look at these OOC jpegs just downsized without sharpening and they look way over sharpened. https://www.flickr.com/photos/121475335@N07/albums/72157652504976384 They don't look oversharpened to me. I usually see halos and weird shadows from oversharpening. Flickr is only letting me see the images at 2048 x 1138 maximum resolution. That's 2 megapixels so any gains from pixel shift are getting wiped out by resizing. I do see what could be a pixel shift artifact in https://www.flickr.com/photos/121475335@N07/18993161442/in/album-72157652504976384/. Zoom in on the wind sock just above the center of the image.

02-05-2016, 10:46 AM	#8
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	There are two things that more or less prevent the pixel shifting tech from being mainstream: the limited use cases and the fact that super resolution can be achieved by manually combining standard files taken with just about any camera. Still, the potential of the in-camera pixel shifting is huge for certain types of users

02-05-2016, 10:50 AM	#9
vcollerp Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Vereeniging South Africa Posts: 208	Originally posted by Adam There are two things that more or less prevent the pixel shifting tech from being mainstream: the limited use cases and the fact that super resolution can be achieved by manually combining standard files taken with just about any camera. Still, the potential of the in-camera pixel shifting is huge for certain types of users By shifting the camera one pixel between every shot?

02-05-2016, 03:41 PM	#10
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by Adam There are two things that more or less prevent the pixel shifting tech from being mainstream: the limited use cases and the fact that super resolution can be achieved by manually combining standard files taken with just about any camera. Still, the potential of the in-camera pixel shifting is huge for certain types of users Is the elimination of the Bayer filter de-mosaicing step (which can't be done with multiple exposures in other cameras) of no value then, in your experience? Pentax's pixel shift method produces an image with direct capture of all three colors at each pixel location to avoid the normal Bayer filter interpolation (guessing) of two of three colors at each pixel. I would have thought that would yield noticeably improved results beyond just stacking multiple exposures.

02-05-2016, 03:50 PM	#11
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106 Original Poster	I guess Adam ment stitching, and not multi exposure.

02-05-2016, 08:07 PM	#12
tduell Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,514	Originally posted by Gimbal I guess Adam ment stitching, and not multi exposure. You can produce super resolution from multiple shots using software to generate the result, but I would make a distinction between super resolution and pixel shift. SR still relies on demosaicing and the inherent interpolation to arrive at the R, G and B for each pixel, whereas PS captures the actual R, G and B for each pixel and no interpolation. Cheers, Terry

02-05-2016, 10:46 PM	#13
SciFiGuy Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 48	To me the color rendition of these pixel shifted aircraft is exceptional. And that quality isn't changed by the lower resolution of the photos on Flickr.

02-07-2016, 04:31 AM	#14
dylansalt Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Durban, South Africa Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,052	I suppose pixel-shift would only be useful where everything is absolutely still and where the resolution was required?

02-07-2016, 05:39 AM	#15
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Gimbal It seems as the new K-1 will have a pixel shift function and that we are all exited about that, and so am I. But the K3 II has had the function for about a year now and still there is almost no examples of pixel shifted photos to be found anywhere. Imaging-resources has some very nice test shoots, but other then that... almost nothing. Isn't that kind of strange? It's not strange. For several reasons. It was a gimmick to start with. There was no user base request for it. It has limited use in practice. If you need better image quality for the use it could be for then you could just buy a D810 and be done with one click.