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02-27-2016, 01:24 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by UliBär Quote
I don't know Canon, but at least they offer full support for AV modes, stepping down the aperture inflicts corresponding time values.
Now, which lenses are you talking about here? Canon completely changed their mount when they went to autofocus. Until last May, I was using a Canon Rebel. When my mother moved to a seniors community, and we moved into her old house, she left behind the FD-mount Canon AE-1, which she bought slightly after I bought my KA-mount Pentax Super Program. I can mount the 50mm kit lens that came with my Super Program on my K-30 and use it normally, including M, Av, Tv, and P modes; in order to mount the 50mm kit lens that came with her AE-1 on my Rebel, I would need to buy an adapter; the fifteen dollar one will not focus to infinity; in order to focus to infinity, I would have to buy a more expensive adapter which would add more glass to the optical path, and even then I would have to use it completely manually (no Tv or P modes).

03-02-2016, 09:08 PM - 2 Likes   #62
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I am bemused and amazed at how many people waited patiently for 15 years for this camera and then refuse to buy it because it doesn't allow them to use a vintage lens exactly the same as they did on a film camera 40 years ago. I guess they really did not want a FF digital all that much...........
03-03-2016, 07:07 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I am bemused and amazed at how many people waited patiently for 15 years for this camera and then refuse to buy it because it doesn't allow them to use a vintage lens exactly the same as they did on a film camera 40 years ago. I guess they really did not want a FF digital all that much...........
Pretty much.
03-03-2016, 09:50 AM - 5 Likes   #64
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professional hyperbole?

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
[. . .] If this is a hobby thing, then you really don't care about performance [. . .]

And please tell me none of you are trying to use these lenses for professional work.. please... [. . .]
I can understand why some folks are upset about the "crippled" K mount. Fortunately, I don't mind using the green button, and I take into consideration that the metering is center-weighted.

I can also understand why folks would want to use newer, AF lenses. I own a couple of them myself; my DA 70 is a wonderful lens.

But when I went with Pentax dslrs, I made a conscious decision to use older, manual-focus glass. It was less expensive than the newer AF glass, for one thing. And it worked with my Pentax film bodies, too. Yep, I still have a darkroom, though I admit I don't use it nearly as much as I do Lightroom 5.

But . . . am I to understand that any M42 or non-AF K lens is unsuitable for "professional work"?

I've made a few bucks from time to time with my photography, but I'm not a professional and have no delusions about my place in the scheme of things. (On the other hand, I'd put my work shooting live music in intimate settings up against the work of just about any professional I know of.)

If you don't like the "crippled" mount or the green button of the new K-1, avoid it.

If you think using manual-focus lenses is masochistic, well, don't use them.

But to say manual-focus glass shouldn't be used for professional work . . . well, my guess is that they can't be used for your professional work. I suspect many others who are professional photographers would find that pronouncement downright silly.

Of course, maybe the statement was deliberate hyperbole and I've simply missed the real point.

Maybe I just need more coffee. . . .

03-03-2016, 03:03 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by UliBär Quote
No, not my first, i have two K100, K200, a Fuji S5pro and Nikon D3, but i want a FF Pentax with full support of manual lenses.
You tell me, the new K1 has the same - absolute lame - support for manual lenses as the previous Pentax cameras? :?
if the k-1 finally implements wysiwg in the evf, it'll be a first for pentax dslrs, afaik; you won't need things like stop-down metering most of the time, because every change of aperture/shutter/iso will be reflected in the lcd screen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_preview

QuoteOriginally posted by UliBär Quote
If that's the truth, i'll sell my supply of old manual Pentax glass for good. I've really waited long enough now...
that would not be smart, because pentax made some really good legacy glass over the years, and all of it can be used on sony ff mirrorless cameras, much better than on any dslr.

the k-1 looks like it's going to be a great camera, but worst case, you have alternatives.
03-03-2016, 06:15 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I am bemused and amazed at how many people waited patiently for 15 years for this camera and then refuse to buy it because it doesn't allow them to use a vintage lens exactly the same as they did on a film camera 40 years ago. I guess they really did not want a FF digital all that much...........

Lots of guys are pretty desperate to find some excuse to 'bail out' of buying the K1.
03-04-2016, 01:53 AM   #67
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Now we'll see who really wanted it, and who was just complaining about some random "missing" thing
03-04-2016, 10:50 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
if the k-1 finally implements wysiwg in the evf, it'll be a first for pentax dslrs, afaik; you won't need things like stop-down metering most of the time, because every change of aperture/shutter/iso will be reflected in the lcd screen.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_preview
I guess I don't understand what you are saying. An EVF is an "Electronic View Finder" that performs the function performed by the "Optical View Finder" on a DSLR. The link you provided is about "Live (Pre)View", which uses the LCD on the back to perform the same function. Which are you actually talking about?

Even my K-30 has "Live View" which would allow me to use the LCD instead of the OVF {although I can't imagine why I would want to do that!!}. The "Live View" on my K-30 functions under the same conditions that the OVF does - namely I have the great burden of pressing the green button to get an accurate metering, and then only in Manual mode.

Is it your understanding that the K-1 works differently?

03-04-2016, 11:27 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I guess I don't understand what you are saying. An EVF is an "Electronic View Finder" that performs the function performed by the "Optical View Finder" on a DSLR. The link you provided is about "Live (Pre)View", which uses the LCD on the back to perform the same function. Which are you actually talking about?

Even my K-30 has "Live View" which would allow me to use the LCD instead of the OVF {although I can't imagine why I would want to do that!!}. The "Live View" on my K-30 functions under the same conditions that the OVF does - namely I have the great burden of pressing the green button to get an accurate metering, and then only in Manual mode.

Is it your understanding that the K-1 works differently?
I've been trying to understand these guys for years, and a soon as I grasp it, I forget it. It's hopeless.
03-04-2016, 12:13 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
I don't get it. If you use K-mount lenses on a Canon you don't have to use stop down metering? And you have to manually open the iris up to focus and close it down to meter and take the exposure. At least with the green button you don't have to play around with manual stop down.
QuoteOriginally posted by UliBär Quote
No, on a Canon i don't have to use stop-down-metering. I simply arrange the picture, select the aperture (or not) and just - click - that's all. The camera constantly meters through the lens and when i press the button, the image is fine.
I finally understand what you are saying, I think.

Actually, the answer to NaN's question is "Yes" - the lens is stopped down the entire time with those adapters. The procedure you use consists of using the maximum lens opening to compose and focus, then setting the aperture you will actually use to meter and take the picture; that last step is another version of stopping down. It may seem more natural to you if you take just one picture per location, but is much more awkward than that "awful" green button if you're going to recompose, refocus, and take a second, or third, or fourth picture, unless you do the recompose/refocus using the stopped-down {dimmer} aperture setting.

You must be using a crop-sensor Canon camera; getting a Canon body similar to the K-1 would cost you much more, and you would endanger that investment every time you used it to take a picture using a Pentax lens. I say that because even the people who sell the converters, the honest ones that is, warn there is a danger that a full-frame Canon mirror will hit a Pentax aperture lever, so you should mutilate the lever if you're going to use the adapter.

Thirdly, I am really surprised to hear that you are using Pentax lenses on a Canon body. I used Canon bodies for twenty years, and it never occurred to me to try to mount one of my old Pentax lenses on it. Yes, old Pentax lenses are fun to use, but modern Canon lenses are by far the best {lens are why I switched to Canon twenty years ago}; bodies is where Pentax out-shines Canon {bodies are why I came back to Pentax this year}. Putting Pentax lenses on Canon bodies is really getting things backwards. If there were an adapter that would allow me to use my old Canon lenses full-function on my new Pentax body, I would be in hog-heaven as they say around here in Indiana!
03-04-2016, 12:27 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I guess I don't understand what you are saying. An EVF is an "Electronic View Finder" that performs the function performed by the "Optical View Finder" on a DSLR. The link you provided is about "Live (Pre)View", which uses the LCD on the back to perform the same function. Which are you actually talking about?
it's confusing for pentax owners because ovf and lcd both perform similarly, neither apparently reflects the exposure of the shot that's going to be taken... that's not the case with canikon live view, they do it better than pentax does.

the link goes into detail about those differences in liveview functionality, and adam covered it in the k3 review: "The K-3's live view display behaves just like it did on earlier Pentax bodies: it does not offer a real-time preview of the actual exposure. Instead, it always tries to keep the scene properly-exposed and this impacts the utility of the histogram and highlight alert features." Pentax K-3 Review - User Interface | PentaxForums.com Reviews

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Even my K-30 has "Live View" which would allow me to use the LCD instead of the OVF {although I can't imagine why I would want to do that!!}.
x2 on that i find the lcd 90% useless... but when people ask for touch screens on the lcd, that's how they are using the camera... i guess that i can sort of see af point selection on the lcd for some video applications, but not for stills.

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The "Live View" on my K-30 functions under the same conditions that the OVF does - namely I have the great burden of pressing the green button to get an accurate metering, and then only in Manual mode.

Is it your understanding that the K-1 works differently?
what i'm trying to do when i butt into k-1 threads is to bring up modern technology concepts, that are foreign to people like normhead so i'm asking if pentax is finally stepping up to the plate on the k-1, with modern liveview?

in this case, it's the idea that you don't need to use the green button at all, when the lcd/histogram is able to reflect the exposure of the shot that's going to be taken. ... that's how mirrorless camera evf systems work with manual lenses.

yes, you'd still be stuck with using the lcd instead of the ovf, so it'll probably have limited use for most of us, but it would be a step forward.
03-04-2016, 12:39 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I guess I don't understand what you are saying. An EVF is an "Electronic View Finder" that performs the function performed by the "Optical View Finder" on a DSLR. The link you provided is about "Live (Pre)View", which uses the LCD on the back to perform the same function. Which are you actually talking about?

Even my K-30 has "Live View" which would allow me to use the LCD instead of the OVF {although I can't imagine why I would want to do that!!}. The "Live View" on my K-30 functions under the same conditions that the OVF does - namely I have the great burden of pressing the green button to get an accurate metering, and then only in Manual mode.

Is it your understanding that the K-1 works differently?
Yes, he's getting "live view" and EVF mixed up, but what he's talking about is having a live digital preview of what the image will look like instead of the screen "correcting" to give you a neutral view, i.e. if you are about to take a picture that will actually be completely dark the screen will be completely dark instead of being boosted. (wysiwyg = what you see is what you get) Of course you can use the histogram and bright/dark area warning functions, or is it that they don't work properly either?

EDIT: No it doesn't work (the histogram), so yeah that's kinda useless. (I usually have it turned off, that's probably why if it doesn't work.)
03-04-2016, 12:45 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Actually, the answer to NaN's question is "Yes" - the lens is stopped down the entire time with those adapters. The procedure you use consists of using the maximum lens opening to compose and focus, then setting the aperture you will actually use to meter and take the picture; that last step is another version of stopping down
canon liveview reflects the actual exposure of the shot that's going to be taken, so it makes sense that the camera body could be using liveview information to automatically meter the exposure... see adam's notes: "this impacts the utility of the histogram and highlight alert features" for how pentax handles it.

with sony ff mirrorless, i have a selectable menu item that makes liveview in the evf perform like pentax liveview does(no wysiwg exposure), or like canon liveview does(wysiwg exposure).

if i select pentax liveview mode, the realtime histogram shows evf exposure, which is not the actual exposure... many a user has cursed that functionality, they want to see the actual exposure histogram, but with an evf that stays bright, for instance, studio shooting, where the camera doesn't know how much light the strobes are adding to the exposure.

so how does the k-1 handle liveview?
03-04-2016, 02:52 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
what i'm trying to do when i butt into k-1 threads is to bring up modern technology concepts, that are foreign to people like normhead so i'm asking if pentax is finally stepping up to the plate on the k-1, with modern liveview?

in this case, it's the idea that you don't need to use the green button at all, when the lcd/histogram is able to reflect the exposure of the shot that's going to be taken. ... that's how mirrorless camera evf systems work with manual lenses.

yes, you'd still be stuck with using the lcd instead of the ovf, so it'll probably have limited use for most of us, but it would be a step forward.
I don't necessarily disagree with you about LiveView in general - in fact, I've been a supporter of MILC concepts that apply the whole idea to an EVF.

However, note the title of this thread - the OP's initial complaint seems to be primarily about the green button. I'm getting so tired of those complaints that I'm seriously thinking of replacing my current avatar with a picture of the corner of my K-30 where the green button rests, mostly not used. NOTE: mission accomplished -see my new avatar

If you read what the OP wrote initially, and how he responded to questions, his primary issue here seems to be that he has to press the green button to get metering on a Pentax, but not on a Canon, when using an original K-mount lens {manufactured during that long period 1975~83}. When you mount one of those lenses on a modern Pentax camera, the lens automatically opens to its widest aperture for composing and focusing; you have to press the green button to get it to meter at the set aperture {incidentally, I believe that the "modern" LiveView you espouse would labor under the same "handicap"}. I had several points about the safety, etc of using these lenses on a Canon FF, but the part germane to this discussion is that
the Canon adapter never opens the aperture for him, so either he opens it himself or he composes and focuses at the set aperture, and I don't see the hated green button being any worse than that.

Last edited by reh321; 03-04-2016 at 06:18 PM. Reason: new avatar
03-04-2016, 05:00 PM   #75
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For accuracy reasons, you're much better off focusing wide open, with the smallest depth of field and most light, than at the shooting aperture.

That green button is great.
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