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03-09-2016, 06:06 PM   #106
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EVF? I don't want to be looking at a continuously refreshing JPEG, with its limited dynamic range.


Just let me frame what I already see in front of me, thank you!


I can see the camera's metering perfectly well, I don't need the screen's representation to be brighter or darker following it. The zebra zones can be handy from time to time, though.

03-09-2016, 07:05 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
no, because pentax does not have wysiwyg capability, that's why i keep asking if the k-1 has finally implemented it with liveview.
These days almost everyone performs PP on almost everything. I don't do much of that, because I have found that I can basically trust my camera's metering - usually if I simply take the picture using its settings, I am satisfied, but if I want more assurance, I bracket on either side of the camera's choice. Especially considering the relatively low quality of any on-camera LCD, and the difficulty of seeing it consistently under varied lighting conditions, in-situ fine-tuning seems pointless. I cannot believe the amount of chatter/complaint about this also.
03-09-2016, 08:16 PM   #108
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i only bring it up to point out that if pentax wants to compete with canikon, they need to implement wysiwyg with live view... canon in particular apparently has it on all of their dslrs, you need it to get a working histogram of the shot before it's taken:

" However, in some situations, being able to see what the camera is seeing on a large LCD screen is beneficial.
When using Live View you can see not only what the sensor is seeing, but also you can make use of the exposure simulation feature to get an accurate view of exactly what the image will look like before you press the shutter button."
Live View - Canon Professional Network
03-09-2016, 08:53 PM   #109
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Just like Osv to do an appeal to 'authority' but leave out vital sentences that contradict him. Did anyone go to his Canon link?


Immediately before his quote is this line:


"For many shooting situations Live View is not necessarily a useful feature - the optical viewfinder gives a clear, bright view of the subject and allows you to focus accurately."


If I really want to know what settings to adjust, I'll chimp after a shot.


In fact, with flashes, that is the only way - attempts to somehow simulate them in WYSIWYG would be ridiculous.


Last edited by clackers; 03-09-2016 at 09:39 PM.
03-09-2016, 09:31 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
i only bring it up to point out that if pentax wants to compete with canikon, they need to implement wysiwyg with live view... canon in particular apparently has it on all of their dslrs, you need it to get a working histogram of the shot before it's taken:
If I had wanted yet another Canon body {which would have enabled me to continue using their fine lenses}, I would have bought yet another [substandard] Canon body. Pentax already surpasses Canon bodies on Pentax's terms. I don't believe Pentax needs to play "monkey see, monkey do" with Canikon. In particular, I'm not sure I see the point of such a robust system on a DSLR. If you're going to be so dependent on the LCD, why not go "whole hog" {as they say around here} and put this capability on the EVF of an MILC? That way, you could actually see the thing under all circumstances.

Last edited by reh321; 03-09-2016 at 09:37 PM. Reason: extend thought
03-10-2016, 10:11 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If you're going to be so dependent on the LCD, why not go "whole hog" {as they say around here} and put this capability on the EVF of an MILC? That way, you could actually see the thing under all circumstances.
that's one big reason why i went with the a7r.

random personal opinions don't matter here, market forces are what drives camera design... companies use surveys, focus groups, etc., to decide what most people want, and that's what sells cameras.

so when all camera companies are adding wysiwyg capability, it's because that's what most people want... no company wants to spend $$$ implementing features that nobody wants.
03-10-2016, 11:15 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
no company wants to spend $$$ implementing features that nobody wants.
Dare I mention the Pentax function "star stream" as found on the K-S2?

see
for an example of what that function produces.

I wonder who it was that wanted this?

But luckily we have this fine feature on the K1 as well.
03-10-2016, 12:31 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
... companies use surveys, focus groups, etc., to decide what most people want, and that's what sells cameras.
I don't think that's how it works exactly at Pentax, otherwise it's hard to explain how K-01 and K-S1 came into existence. But then, if you lack vision and only relay on customer input - they'll just tell you they want faster horses.

03-10-2016, 04:14 PM   #114
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o.k., i don't get that star stream thing at all, lol... point taken there.

the k-01 might have had a chance if it hadn't been introduced so late in the game... sony already had a 24mp mirrorless camera with an evf, that was on the market before the k-01 was released... but the k-s1??
03-10-2016, 10:40 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If you're going to be so dependent on the LCD, why not go "whole hog" {as they say around here} and put this capability on the EVF of an MILC? That way, you could actually see the thing under all circumstances
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
that's one big reason why i went with the a7r.
Random personal opinions don't matter here, market forces are what drives camera design... companies use surveys, focus groups, etc., to decide what most people want, and that's what sells cameras.
so when all camera companies are adding wysiwyg capability, it's because that's what most people want... no company wants to spend $$$ implementing features that nobody wants.
I agree with you up to a point. As I indicated in my post above, I believe that sometimes combining ideas is a bad idea; I can understand using LiveView on a DSLR if you have it on a tripod ... but most of us do not use a DSLR that way most of the time, and LiveView is just plain awkward on a DSLR without a tripod because the camera is relatively heavy and there is nothing to shield the LCD from ambient light. Thus, when you see companies like Canon putting so much into LiveView on a DSLR, I believe they are simply back to the futile task of trying to make one camera which will appeal to all aspects of the market. Right now that will not work. People who will make heavy use of LiveView-type capabilities will buy an MILC with a good capable EVF; those who want various other capabilities, such as an OVF, size to balance a long lens, or better battery life will buy a DSLR. A couple of years ago, I expected MILC's to become the dominant camera in a matter of just a few years, and for the DSLR to become a niche product for certain areas such as sports. That is not happening. Pentax's heritage is built around the mirror-box, and they have apparently decided to focus primarily on that as long as it is a profitable course for them to follow.

---------- Post added 03-11-16 at 12:41 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
o.k., i don't get that star stream thing at all, lol... point taken there.
The k-01 might have had a chance if it hadn't been introduced so late in the game... sony already had a 24mp mirrorless camera with an evf, that was on the market before the k-01 was released... but the k-s1??
{we totally agree here}
03-23-2016, 06:21 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by UliBär Quote
No, not my first, i have two K100, K200, a Fuji S5pro and Nikon D3, but i want a FF Pentax with full support of manual lenses.
You tell me, the new K1 has the same - absolute lame - support for manual lenses as the previous Pentax cameras? :?
If that's the truth, i'll sell my supply of old manual Pentax glass for good. I've really waited long enough now...


...deeply disappointed... X(
Pentax said in 2003 that the aperture simulator was gone for good.
04-07-2016, 06:48 PM   #117
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I've got to admit, an un-crippled K-mount would be nice. Yes, the green button works "okay", but it doesn't work like my old Ricoh XR7 where I can fiddle with the aperture ring and watch what happens to the shutter speed. And manual focusing with a DSLR isn't like the old split prism and microprism screen either. . .

Alas, the world has moved on!

I have been pondering where I go next in terms of a system camera. I'd like to be able to dabble with some oddball old lenses, and ideally without too many awkward restrictions. It seems I have two reasonable options in a "full frame" camera: Sony A7 or Pentax K-1.

A used Sony would be far less money to get into, and it could work with a much broader range of adapted lenses. However. . . Most of those adapted lenses would have no aperture control at all. THAT is a real inconvenience. It makes accurate focusing difficult. Also, there's a thin catalog of native lenses for the Sony, and they are pricey.

The K-1 would work much more conveniently with old K-mount lenses (or even some new ones, like the Samyangs!), and I already have a M42 adapter. There are some other vintage lens formats that I wouldn't be able to use, but I can probably find anything that really interests me in K or M42 versions if I beat the bushes on fleaBay enough. And when it comes to modern lenses, I would definitely have better options overall in the Pentax camp. (And finally get that 43mm LTD?) However. . . The news that the focus screen can't be swapped out was a bit disappointing to me. Conceptually, I do like mirrorless cameras, and I like shooting with an EVF. And then there's the price tag for a new K-1, which is roughly $1000 up from a used A7.

So I'm undecided, and I'm waiting for the reports from more people with hands-on experience of the K-1. I am actually leaning that way despite the cost, but I'll wait for them to hit the streets and to get more reports before I make that big commitment.
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