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03-07-2016, 09:25 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Wow, a dealer with stock... wat wid dat? I'd happily give a dealer an extra $50- $75 if I could hold it in my hot little hands before I bought it. $100, not so much.
Since that time, my 3 local retailers have ceased to stock Pentax even though they remain authorized dealers.

---------- Post added 7th Mar 2016 at 13:06 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Wow, a dealer with stock... wat wid dat? I'd happily give a dealer an extra $50- $75 if I could hold it in my hot little hands before I bought it. $100, not so much.

Finding stores that stock Pentax in Canada, maybe, henry's downtown Toronto, and Downtown camera right across the street. Most, like Aden camera, take your order and phone the warehouse. There was a thread on this recently.
According to Henry's website their list of locations stocking the K-3ii body doesn't include the Queen Street (Toronto) store. You would have to go to the Ottawa, Nepean, Sudbury or Mississauga store. Based on that, I'm not certain the chain will stock the K1.

03-07-2016, 09:39 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteQuote:
I think they have very little staff with knowledge about Pentax gear because there is little demand for it. Pentax's poor marketing in recent decades (compared with Canikony) combined with Hoya's elimination of incentives for retailers to stock
It may sound right that Ricoh has "poor" marketing... in reality it is more like "strategic" or "targeted" marketing which depends on the regions and customer buying behaviour. If Hoya or Ricoh uses the same marketing that Canikon use in North America, they will run out of business long before they become profitable. Pentax/Ricoh's presence is no less than Canikony in Japan.
03-07-2016, 09:54 AM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
It may sound right that Ricoh has "poor" marketing... in reality it is more like "strategic" or "targeted" marketing which depends on the regions and customer buying behaviour. If Hoya or Ricoh uses the same marketing that Canikon use in North America, they will run out of business long before they become profitable. Pentax/Ricoh's presence is no less than Canikony in Japan.
Why did customer buying behaviour in North America change in the 1970s to cause Pentax to lose most of its large market share? Was it Nikon's and Canon's aggressive marketing campaigns in comparison to Pentax's?

Last edited by pete-tarmigan; 03-07-2016 at 09:57 AM. Reason: omitted word
03-07-2016, 09:56 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Best price at photoprice.ca for a D610 would seem to be about $1600
Nikon D610 - Canada and Cross-Border Price Comparison - photoprice.ca

The comparable Pentax is a K-3 both 24 MP DSLRs, the K-3II has pixels shift that will blow away any 610 image under the right circumstances, not to mention no in body shake reduction.
K-3s are listed at about $1000 or $600 less.

The K-1 equivalent is the D810 which still lacks some K-1 features but same sensor size. The K-1 is listed at $2500 at several locations.
A D810 at Aden Camera in Toronto is listed at about $3600 or about $1100 more than a K-1.

I'm not sure why you are comparing 24 MP sensors that Pentax can match with a 36 MP sensor.
Exactly what is the logic in doing that?
My comparison would be how does my K-3 compare to a D610 or D750 and it is by far the best option for what I do.
If I owned a D750 or D610, I'd still want a K-1.

If you're talking 36 MP, it looks like the K-1 has an $1100 advantage, at least according to prices listed on photo price.ca.

So I would say it is looking great for Pentax users in Canada at the moment. Funny how two people can come up with two totally opposite opinions.

By the time I'm ready to buy, probably next year, I'm expecting the price to be under $2200.
My only point Norm was that south of the border the price is much more inline with the lower end bodies, not so much in Canada. Your correct that this is more of a d810 competitor and that at 2500 it is a bargain. However if you live in Canada and are not in a rush you may get a better deal if you can be patient.

03-07-2016, 05:59 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belnan Quote
My only point Norm was that south of the border the price is much more inline with the lower end bodies, not so much in Canada. Your correct that this is more of a d810 competitor and that at 2500 it is a bargain. However if you live in Canada and are not in a rush you may get a better deal if you can be patient.
Given the current state of the Canadian dollar, I don't think anyone of us in Canada is in a rush, I might be wrong though.
03-07-2016, 07:17 PM   #36
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Possibility I might be able to view it in person here in Medicine Hat as London Drugs lists it and they have the other models in stock most of the time. But we are sort of spoilt here as not only does London Drugs carry it but the local photo finisher can and does order then in if you want one. The last time I ordered a lens they lost the invoice so I had the lens for about a month before I paid for it. And as I said they are a photo finisher so C41 up to 8X10 can be done. I go in there a couple of times a year, walk in and someone goes to the back without asking me and gets my negs, my type of store.
03-08-2016, 09:14 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by pete-tarmigan Quote
Why did customer buying behaviour in North America change in the 1970s to cause Pentax to lose most of its large market share? Was it Nikon's and Canon's aggressive marketing campaigns in comparison to Pentax's?
I could be wrong... but in Japan and certainly many places in Asia, you can not return the merchandise unless it is faulty (otherwise, 15% restocking fee). Nikon and Canon both have much bigger production capacity/volume, hence less cost, therefore, they can afford customer returns without good reasons. Can Ricoh/Pentax afford that with their limited production capacity? I doubt it...

---------- Post added 03-08-2016 at 11:16 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Given the current state of the Canadian dollar, I don't think anyone of us in Canada is in a rush, I might be wrong though.
I am in no rush to get the k-1.... hoping that Canadian dollar situation improves over time before I plunge in.
03-08-2016, 11:19 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
you can not return the merchandise unless it is faulty (otherwise, 15% restocking fee)
In North America (outside of Quebec, which follows French civil law, based on Roman civil law, which I'm not familiar with, and Quebec has "unique" statutory law regarding consumer rights) there is a principle that if a purchased object is unsuitable for the purchaser and the purchaser couldn't be expected to know in advance that said product would be unsuitable, then the purchaser is entitled to return the purchased product for a refund assuming the returned product is suitable for resale as new and the purchaser assumes any costs related to getting the purchased product back to the seller and in re-sellable condition. Special orders can usually count on a 15% (or similar) restocking charge, but if the retailer normally stocks said item, forget it.
QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
Can Ricoh/Pentax afford that with their limited production capacity? I doubt it...
it has nothing to do with production capacity or sales volume, the question is whether or not the cost of refunds for returned purchases makes it unprofitable to sell the product. A distributor (Ricoh in this instance) can manage those costs by keeping the return rate low or reducing the amount refunded. Nothing drives up return rates like convincing customers that they might have a problem returning a genuinely undesirable product, it's a bit like engineering a run on bank deposits. Making it look like you will accept returns even if not truly justified is the best way to keep return rates as low as possible. Very few purchasers enjoy returning purchases, they just don't like the risk of getting stuck with a truly bad product.

03-09-2016, 09:18 AM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
In North America (outside of Quebec, which follows French civil law, based on Roman civil law, which I'm not familiar with, and Quebec has "unique" statutory law regarding consumer rights) there is a principle that if a purchased object is unsuitable for the purchaser and the purchaser couldn't be expected to know in advance that said product would be unsuitable, then the purchaser is entitled to return the purchased product for a refund assuming the returned product is suitable for resale as new and the purchaser assumes any costs related to getting the purchased product back to the seller and in re-sellable condition. Special orders can usually count on a 15% (or similar) restocking charge, but if the retailer normally stocks said item, forget it.it has nothing to do with production capacity or sales volume, the question is whether or not the cost of refunds for returned purchases makes it unprofitable to sell the product. A distributor (Ricoh in this instance) can manage those costs by keeping the return rate low or reducing the amount refunded. Nothing drives up return rates like convincing customers that they might have a problem returning a genuinely undesirable product, it's a bit like engineering a run on bank deposits. Making it look like you will accept returns even if not truly justified is the best way to keep return rates as low as possible. Very few purchasers enjoy returning purchases, they just don't like the risk of getting stuck with a truly bad product.
I respectfully disagree with you, given the wide spread of population in North America, Ricoh/Pentax simply cannot afford to provide stocks to every stores (based on production levels and costs). Your reasoning works fine here in North America, but certainly not in densely populated regions. If you have a chance, go to Asia (for example, Hongkong or Japan) and try to buy a camera and return it within a week because you don't find it suitable any more. You don't need to agree with me and see what you experience.

Last edited by aleonx3; 03-09-2016 at 10:24 AM.
03-09-2016, 09:45 AM   #40
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Many from Europe come to Canada and expect to see wilderness. We drive along the Hwy 60 corridor and the marvel at the "wilderness". Then we take them to the real "wilderness like' experience on the developed for canoe camping campsites accessible only by boat, and they are blown away. And that's not really wilderness either. It's hard to comprehend Canada if you haven't been here.

MY closest photo store is 100 km away, and I'm grateful because a Pentax rep stops in every now and then, and they will order anything Pentax for me and have him deliver it. I don't do it, because I can order on-line, but when I see how much equipment is probably damaged in the mail, sometimes I think i should.
03-09-2016, 09:42 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
If you have a chance, go to Asia (for example, Hongkong or Japan) and try to buy a camera and return it within a week because you don't find it suitable any more. You don't need to agree with me and see what you experience.
We aren't necessarily in disagreement; as far as I know, English common law doesn't apply in Asia, and unlike in Canada, U.S., Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand, legal precedence and the small claims court system doesn't give consumers the same kind of protection. My point was that in North America, consumers have the right to return "unsuitable" products.

At the wholesale level, different circumstances apply and again, what is "normal" business practices varies by region. Apparently Ricoh Imaging Americas has offered U.S. retailers guaranteed inventory turns in order to get shelf space and exposure, so their return policy is very liberal where it needs to be. Generally speaking, consignment inventory is not a great business practice because it isn't really that effective at encouraging the retailer to make a serious effort to sell your products, not because of what it costs the manufacturer. Anything Ricoh can do to get Pentax cameras into the hands of users who are genuinely interested in comparing competitive cameras to make a purchase decision should be beneficial to improving market share, sales volume and profitability.

In the big picture, I'm arguing a minor point, but from a marketing perspective, what happened in the '70's or '80's that dropped Pentax to a minor market share, while Canon and Nikon became major players is irrelevant to what is available to consumers today. Pentax customers tend to be more knowledgeable and less likely to follow the herd in their purchasing behaviour, compared to Canon and Nikon customers and Ricoh Imaging doesn't need the same kind of sales volume as Canon and Nikon have in order to manufacture products typical Pentax customers want to buy. As a Pentax customer, this is a good thing, if sales volume similar to what Canon and Nikon currently have was necessary in order to be profitable, Ricoh would no longer be manufacturing Pentax products. They don't build them to be charitable.
03-09-2016, 09:49 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
MY closest photo store is 100 km away,
My closest photo store is 300km away...
Though it is a pretty good one (The Camera Store)
03-09-2016, 11:25 PM   #43
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you could go to a store in Banff or Cranbrook if you really wanted to ...

QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
My closest photo store is 300km away...
Though it is a pretty good one (The Camera Store)
03-10-2016, 12:42 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
If you have a chance, go to Asia (for example, Hongkong or Japan) and try to buy a camera and return it within a week because you don't find it suitable any more. .
I was in HK at Xmas...... where they are selling new K10D's .....maybe they are returns?

03-10-2016, 07:46 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
I was in HK at Xmas...... where they are selling new K10D's .....maybe they are returns?
At least is 50% off.

Last edited by normhead; 03-10-2016 at 08:28 AM.
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