Who designed/manufactures the 36.4 MP sensor?

rawr · 03-01-2016, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by quh86

sensor back plates should have an ID.

Oh, I'm sure the K-1 sensor and it's SR mounting have ID codes on them somewhere. But they do not seem easily visible.

The exact Sony sensor ID would be etched on the back of the sensor. And you won't be able to see the back of the sensor unless you completely tear-down the camera, and remove the sensor chip from the SR assembly.

quh86 · 03-01-2016, 04:26 PM

Since this thread was full of speculation to this point anyways, i didnt see the need to have rock solid evidence. The purpose of my post was merely to present what I have learned regardless of public opinion. See it, if you may, as another possibility next to the innumerable thrown about these days. Lets see what we come to know..

Originally posted by clackers

I think people's concerns were that with a lot of inaccurate info having been thrown around for years, you just posted some more without checking, Quh - it was no favour you were doing everyone, whatever you thought.

You could have googled 'Sony a7s II" and found it only has 12 Mp before reproducing some camera salesman's rumour.

Matter of fact, i know of the low MP count. As the sensor was rumored to be just a dialed down version of sonys other higher MP sensors, there isnt a rule which would prevent a manufacturer from tweaking the MP count to their liking.

Originally posted by jpzk

Could be an interesting fact if that could be proven, otherwise it is just hot air for the moment.

Don't be alarmed with the replies ... you'd have to expect them with that post though.
Cheer up!

JP

I do expect people to challenge what i write, i have no problem with that, but trying to compromise my credibility is crossing the line here. If people dont have the decency to respect one another i dont think they should be on public forums, actually not engaging in social activity at all!

Originally posted by monochrome

OK - I'll be open minded

How did your source get a production K-1?
If it was pre-production, did your source put it back together before sending it back to Ricoh?
Did your source say precisely which Sony sensor was used, by model number?
Was the sensor IMX094, for instance?

Oh, how nice of you!

1: have a look here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/169-pentax-full-frame/315232-pentax-k-1-vietnam.html, it seems no exception that bigger dealers get the production units a little earlier

2: From what he was implying the production units wont be shipped back, perhaps they purchased them beforehand, i would not know. How is this of relevance?

3: Im no investigative journalist, he described the backplate to have a specific ID, which he googled, also the ID apparently left no second guessing about what sensor it was.

4: When i drop by the store next time i will ask him.

I didnt ask for this info, he was giving it voluntarily. Therefore I did not challenge him. I do trust people at face value as long as they wouldnt gain anything from it.

Originally posted by jatrax

Because he is in sales?

And giving this info would increase his sales?
How is the one sony sensor undoubtedly better than the other? That makes no sense!

Originally posted by Kunzite

Indeed; the problem here is that not even the most basic plausibility checking (a roughly similar number of pixels) was done. And somehow we're the bad guys for not believing it?

One credible, independent source which can identify the sensors from various cameras is Chipworks. For example, they confirmed that the D800 is using a Sony IMX094AQP:
https://chipworks.secure.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=SON-IMX094AQP&...searchText=imx
Yep, the complete report costs $450, and I assume it takes more than disassembling the camera and taking a look. But I assume they're doing much more than simply identifying the sensor (no way I'll pay $450, even though I'm curious).
This article can give you an idea about how much into details they're going:
https://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/full-frame-dslr-came...-nikon-vs-sony

Pixel count: See above, how is there a problem of having increased/decreased pixel density out of the lab?

there is a (not so) thin line between challenging someone's view on an intellectual basis and being sassy! Im absolutely willing to discuss pro/cons, but disregarding something out of hand without any information for one or the other direction is not a smart move!

So then lets wait the next few months until they will have had a look into the K1, whats the rush?

Anyways, i was not trying to steer up the forums with some dodgy information. It was merely me seeing this topic being discussed and throwing in what i have heard. Make of it what you like, as a previous speaker mentioned its all hot air at the moment anyway.

Edit:

Originally posted by rawr

Oh, I'm sure the K-1 sensor and it's SR mounting have ID codes on them somewhere. But they do not seem easily visible.

The exact Sony sensor ID would be etched on the back of the sensor. And you won't be able to see the back of the sensor unless you completely tear-down the camera, and remove the sensor chip from the SR assembly.

that makes sense i guess, thanks for your work! makes my theory unlikely.
as i have mentioned i will ask him about it more thoroughly next time i meet my dealer.
Cheers

**clackers** · 03-01-2016, 04:29 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jatrax

Because he is in sales?

I would last two days in a sales job.

At the end of the first day my line manager would remind me I act on behalf of the company, not the customer, and on the second I'd be escorted off the premises with a cardboard box of personal belongings.

**monochrome** · 03-01-2016, 04:30 PM

Annnnnnnnnndddddd Done.

**monochrome** · 03-01-2016, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by clackers

I would last two days in a sales job.

At the end of the first day my line manager would remind me I act on behalf of the company, not the customer, and on the second I'd be escorted off the premises with a cardboard box of personal belongings.

Yikes!

I've been selling since I was 12.

rawr · 03-01-2016, 04:49 PM

BTW, this is what you see when you look into the camera and the mirror is up, revealing the sensor. There is not much chance of seeing even the SR mechanism, let alone any ID on the sensor itself:

But if there is indeed some visible code stamped in there that reveals something useful via a Google search, that would certainly be interesting to learn about.

Parallax · 03-01-2016, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Annnnnnnnnndddddd Done.

Yep.

**clackers** · 03-01-2016, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Yikes!

I've been selling since I was 12.

Traditionally, people in IT hated anyone in the Sales department for making promises to customers that engineers would have told them couldn't be kept.

It's changed now. Everyone in a building realises that their next project depends on how well the sales folk are going.

**monochrome** · 03-01-2016, 08:26 PM - **1 Like**

My father told me three things:

don't smoke with a customer
don't drink with a customer
don't promise a customer furniture the warehouse can't deliver

derekkite · 03-01-2016, 08:45 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

Traditionally, people in IT hated anyone in the Sales department for making promises to customers that engineers would have told them couldn't be kept.

It's changed now. Everyone in a building realises that their next project depends on how well the sales folk are going.

In my business a sales guy can put you out of business. They are kept on a short leash.

**Ash** · 03-01-2016, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

My father told me three things:

don't smoke with a customer
don't drink with a customer
don't promise a customer furniture the warehouse can't deliver

I'm sure he taught you more than just those three things, but I'm personally disappointed that these three quite reasonable principles are a far cry from what sales people abide by.

I'm put off by the salesman who feigns the 'I want to be your good friend' act to build a fake relationship that works in his favour to sell his product. I have disdain for the sugar coated words used to promote a product that is made to be something needed beyond what it was designed to even do, and laud the aspects the customer does not need. I loathe the dispensability of relationship once a sale has been closed leaving a customer feeling abandoned when there are still finer matters to discuss regarding the product.

The discipline of marketing makes the person practicing it a despicable showman. [/RANT].

The K-1 needs no marketing to tell people how good it is. In the hand, in the field, it will prove itself. That will be good enough for me.

**clackers** · 03-02-2016, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by Ash

The K-1 needs no marketing to tell people how good it is.

We probably need to make a bit of a distinction, here.

The marketing people are in theory on our side too, trying to match product lineups with consumers, sales people may be forced to try and sell you something you'll never need e.g. cold calling.

**monochrome** · 03-02-2016, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by Ash

I'm put off by the salesman who feigns the 'I want to be your good friend' act to build a fake relationship that works in his favour to sell his product. I have disdain for the sugar coated words used to promote a product that is made to be something needed beyond what it was designed to even do, and laud the aspects the customer does not need. I loathe the dispensability of relationship once a sale has been closed leaving a customer feeling abandoned when there are still finer matters to discuss regarding the product. The discipline of marketing makes the person practicing it a despicable showman. [

Customers are no saints. They want everything for nothing.

But we're off topic.

**RGlasel** · 03-02-2016, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

But we're off topic.

Part of this topic seems to be the credibility of public statements and comments by people who are employed by the manufacturer versus the credibility of anonymous posters on the Internet. In the end, the level of accountability is proportional to the level of investment and credibility is proportional to accountability.

ChristianRock · 03-02-2016, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by quh86

I do expect people to challenge what i write, i have no problem with that, but trying to compromise my credibility is crossing the line here. If people dont have the decency to respect one another i dont think they should be on public forums, actually not engaging in social activity at all!

Here's two things you got wrong:
1. Nobody is challenging you, they're challenging your source. Can't you see the difference? Why do you take it personally when someone else is criticized by what they said?
2. You put too much trust in someone that gave you wrong information, to the point that you wanted to believe him rather than the solid evidence that was provided against what he said.

Hopefully that helps ease the tensions between you and the fine people in this forum who care actually trying to help.

03-01-2016, 04:26 PM	#62
quh86 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 157	Since this thread was full of speculation to this point anyways, i didnt see the need to have rock solid evidence. The purpose of my post was merely to present what I have learned regardless of public opinion. See it, if you may, as another possibility next to the innumerable thrown about these days. Lets see what we come to know.. Originally posted by clackers I think people's concerns were that with a lot of inaccurate info having been thrown around for years, you just posted some more without checking, Quh - it was no favour you were doing everyone, whatever you thought. You could have googled 'Sony a7s II" and found it only has 12 Mp before reproducing some camera salesman's rumour. Matter of fact, i know of the low MP count. As the sensor was rumored to be just a dialed down version of sonys other higher MP sensors, there isnt a rule which would prevent a manufacturer from tweaking the MP count to their liking. Originally posted by jpzk Could be an interesting fact if that could be proven, otherwise it is just hot air for the moment. Don't be alarmed with the replies ... you'd have to expect them with that post though. Cheer up! JP I do expect people to challenge what i write, i have no problem with that, but trying to compromise my credibility is crossing the line here. If people dont have the decency to respect one another i dont think they should be on public forums, actually not engaging in social activity at all! Originally posted by monochrome OK - I'll be open minded How did your source get a production K-1? If it was pre-production, did your source put it back together before sending it back to Ricoh? Did your source say precisely which Sony sensor was used, by model number? Was the sensor IMX094, for instance? Oh, how nice of you! 1: have a look here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/169-pentax-full-frame/315232-pentax-k-1-vietnam.html, it seems no exception that bigger dealers get the production units a little earlier 2: From what he was implying the production units wont be shipped back, perhaps they purchased them beforehand, i would not know. How is this of relevance? 3: Im no investigative journalist, he described the backplate to have a specific ID, which he googled, also the ID apparently left no second guessing about what sensor it was. 4: When i drop by the store next time i will ask him. I didnt ask for this info, he was giving it voluntarily. Therefore I did not challenge him. I do trust people at face value as long as they wouldnt gain anything from it. Originally posted by jatrax Because he is in sales? And giving this info would increase his sales? How is the one sony sensor undoubtedly better than the other? That makes no sense! Originally posted by Kunzite Indeed; the problem here is that not even the most basic plausibility checking (a roughly similar number of pixels) was done. And somehow we're the bad guys for not believing it? One credible, independent source which can identify the sensors from various cameras is Chipworks. For example, they confirmed that the D800 is using a Sony IMX094AQP: https://chipworks.secure.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=SON-IMX094AQP&...searchText=imx Yep, the complete report costs $450, and I assume it takes more than disassembling the camera and taking a look. But I assume they're doing much more than simply identifying the sensor (no way I'll pay $450, even though I'm curious). This article can give you an idea about how much into details they're going: https://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/full-frame-dslr-came...-nikon-vs-sony Pixel count: See above, how is there a problem of having increased/decreased pixel density out of the lab? there is a (not so) thin line between challenging someone's view on an intellectual basis and being sassy! Im absolutely willing to discuss pro/cons, but disregarding something out of hand without any information for one or the other direction is not a smart move! So then lets wait the next few months until they will have had a look into the K1, whats the rush? Anyways, i was not trying to steer up the forums with some dodgy information. It was merely me seeing this topic being discussed and throwing in what i have heard. Make of it what you like, as a previous speaker mentioned its all hot air at the moment anyway. Edit: Originally posted by rawr Oh, I'm sure the K-1 sensor and it's SR mounting have ID codes on them somewhere. But they do not seem easily visible. The exact Sony sensor ID would be etched on the back of the sensor. And you won't be able to see the back of the sensor unless you completely tear-down the camera, and remove the sensor chip from the SR assembly. that makes sense i guess, thanks for your work! makes my theory unlikely. as i have mentioned i will ask him about it more thoroughly next time i meet my dealer. Cheers

03-01-2016, 08:26 PM - 1 Like	#69
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	My father told me three things: don't smoke with a customer don't drink with a customer don't promise a customer furniture the warehouse can't deliver

03-01-2016, 11:51 PM	#71
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Originally posted by monochrome My father told me three things: don't smoke with a customer don't drink with a customer don't promise a customer furniture the warehouse can't deliver I'm sure he taught you more than just those three things, but I'm personally disappointed that these three quite reasonable principles are a far cry from what sales people abide by. I'm put off by the salesman who feigns the 'I want to be your good friend' act to build a fake relationship that works in his favour to sell his product. I have disdain for the sugar coated words used to promote a product that is made to be something needed beyond what it was designed to even do, and laud the aspects the customer does not need. I loathe the dispensability of relationship once a sale has been closed leaving a customer feeling abandoned when there are still finer matters to discuss regarding the product. The discipline of marketing makes the person practicing it a despicable showman. [/RANT]. The K-1 needs no marketing to tell people how good it is. In the hand, in the field, it will prove itself. That will be good enough for me.

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03-01-2016, 04:24 PM	#61
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by quh86 sensor back plates should have an ID. Oh, I'm sure the K-1 sensor and it's SR mounting have ID codes on them somewhere. But they do not seem easily visible. The exact Sony sensor ID would be etched on the back of the sensor. And you won't be able to see the back of the sensor unless you completely tear-down the camera, and remove the sensor chip from the SR assembly.

03-01-2016, 04:29 PM - 1 Like	#63
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by jatrax Because he is in sales? I would last two days in a sales job. At the end of the first day my line manager would remind me I act on behalf of the company, not the customer, and on the second I'd be escorted off the premises with a cardboard box of personal belongings.

03-01-2016, 04:30 PM	#64
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Annnnnnnnnndddddd Done.

03-01-2016, 04:32 PM	#65
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by clackers I would last two days in a sales job. At the end of the first day my line manager would remind me I act on behalf of the company, not the customer, and on the second I'd be escorted off the premises with a cardboard box of personal belongings. Yikes! I've been selling since I was 12.

03-01-2016, 04:49 PM	#66
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	BTW, this is what you see when you look into the camera and the mirror is up, revealing the sensor. There is not much chance of seeing even the SR mechanism, let alone any ID on the sensor itself: But if there is indeed some visible code stamped in there that reveals something useful via a Google search, that would certainly be interesting to learn about.

03-01-2016, 06:03 PM	#67
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by monochrome Annnnnnnnnndddddd Done. Yep.

03-01-2016, 08:04 PM	#68
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by monochrome Yikes! I've been selling since I was 12. Traditionally, people in IT hated anyone in the Sales department for making promises to customers that engineers would have told them couldn't be kept. It's changed now. Everyone in a building realises that their next project depends on how well the sales folk are going.

03-01-2016, 08:45 PM - 1 Like	#70
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Originally posted by clackers Traditionally, people in IT hated anyone in the Sales department for making promises to customers that engineers would have told them couldn't be kept. It's changed now. Everyone in a building realises that their next project depends on how well the sales folk are going. In my business a sales guy can put you out of business. They are kept on a short leash.

03-02-2016, 01:27 AM	#72
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Ash The K-1 needs no marketing to tell people how good it is. We probably need to make a bit of a distinction, here. The marketing people are in theory on our side too, trying to match product lineups with consumers, sales people may be forced to try and sell you something you'll never need e.g. cold calling.

03-02-2016, 03:57 AM	#73
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Ash I'm put off by the salesman who feigns the 'I want to be your good friend' act to build a fake relationship that works in his favour to sell his product. I have disdain for the sugar coated words used to promote a product that is made to be something needed beyond what it was designed to even do, and laud the aspects the customer does not need. I loathe the dispensability of relationship once a sale has been closed leaving a customer feeling abandoned when there are still finer matters to discuss regarding the product. The discipline of marketing makes the person practicing it a despicable showman. [ Customers are no saints. They want everything for nothing. But we're off topic.

03-02-2016, 08:58 AM	#74
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,229	Originally posted by monochrome But we're off topic. Part of this topic seems to be the credibility of public statements and comments by people who are employed by the manufacturer versus the credibility of anonymous posters on the Internet. In the end, the level of accountability is proportional to the level of investment and credibility is proportional to accountability.

03-02-2016, 10:08 AM	#75
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Originally posted by quh86 I do expect people to challenge what i write, i have no problem with that, but trying to compromise my credibility is crossing the line here. If people dont have the decency to respect one another i dont think they should be on public forums, actually not engaging in social activity at all! Here's two things you got wrong: 1. Nobody is challenging you, they're challenging your source. Can't you see the difference? Why do you take it personally when someone else is criticized by what they said? 2. You put too much trust in someone that gave you wrong information, to the point that you wanted to believe him rather than the solid evidence that was provided against what he said. Hopefully that helps ease the tensions between you and the fine people in this forum who care actually trying to help.