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02-21-2016, 11:56 AM - 1 Like   #1
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Will the k-1 be better than k-3 is these circumstances ?

I recall being involved in a similar discussion on this topic, but now we know the new FF spec we can be more specific. Here goes:

I've two k-3s and several apc-s lenses, which I carry with a tripod on landscape day trips. I always shoot with a remote, 100 ISO etc to squeeze what I can out of the sensor. I don't get noise issues, naturally, and DR is good. I print to A2 sheets regularly, which are at 300dpi on the k-3s. I don't really need more pixels.

So would the performance/IQ of the k-1 be noticeably better at ISO 100 with careful shooting technique ? My thoughts are probably not.

The k-1, with a more limited and heavier lens selection, counts against it for my need. However, the effort and planning of some shots mean that if there were really a noticeable step up improvement in IQ i'd prefer not to miss it - FOR MY NEEDS.

It will be difficult to make proper comparisons unless I get a chance to make a direct, controlled test. Maybe whenever the k-1 is available for hire, which will be a long time yet in the UK I suspect. Thus this question to extract some views on my limited usage so I can plan ahead. I realise the reviews may help, but my questions will probably be too specific to get clear review guidance.

Please keep to the topic as there's already a fair few k-1 questions and we don't want to get swamped. Here's hoping ...

Thanks

02-21-2016, 12:05 PM - 2 Likes   #2
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Larger photosites (for more DR/less noise) + higher res files + wider angle views available + pixel shift with motion correction will likely make the K-1 much better for tripod-based landscape shots.

Whether the improvement is worth £1500 is entirely a personal cost/benefit calculation, since it looks like you are looking for a justification not to purchase the new camera.
02-21-2016, 12:11 PM   #3
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With excellent printing you will see a little more detail, since the K-3 falls a little short with pixels for your A2 print.
02-21-2016, 12:31 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
With excellent printing you will see a little more detail, since the K-3 falls a little short with pixels for your A2 print.
Ron, with a slightly wider mount A2 fits perfectly, I find. It's the little more detail in tone range, DR etc that may just lift a print on a fine art paper, that k-1 MAY offer with the techniques I use.

I rarely use wide angle shots, by the way ...

---------- Post added 02-21-16 at 07:33 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote

...since it looks like you are looking for a justification not to purchase the new camera.
Maybe ! But the cost is in the lens, weight and cash too for a not easy to truely quantify conundrum. I want to be closer to being convinced ...

02-21-2016, 12:40 PM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
So would the performance/IQ of the k-1 be noticeably better at ISO 100 with careful shooting technique ? My thoughts are probably not.
At base ISO the APSC cameras are really good already. It mostly depends how much you push the photos in PP. If you add +100 contrast, +3EV, +saturation, then the K-1 should have some more room before showing noticeable noise.
The other thing is resolution. For many uses, you don't need high resolution. In fact, it can be annoying, as it means larger file size, more CPU power required, slower transfer rates of photos, and you also need to be more careful as shake blur will appear sooner than with a lower MP camera (also you would ideally need sharp lenses, though most DA lenses should be fine). But if you want to make large prints that will be viewed up close, or if you want to crop a lot of the frame away in PP, then high resolution can be really great.
02-21-2016, 12:45 PM   #6
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Is this for selling prints? Can we see some images? Do you on average use many different focal lengths?

A2 format is 594 x 420mm. So for a 300dpi print you need 7015 x 4961 pixels.

So the K-1 will come closer to these specs then thè K-3. I have done some printing myself, so I do know that this is not something that is absolutely nessacery. I have made larger prints with images from my K-01. The thing is, are you looking for that last piece of extra detail? Who is going to see that?
02-21-2016, 01:03 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Is this for selling prints? Can we see some images? Do you on average use many different focal lengths?

A2 format is 594 x 420mm. So for a 300dpi print you need 7015 x 4961 pixels.

So the K-1 will come closer to these specs then thè K-3. I have done some printing myself, so I do know that this is not something that is absolutely nessacery. I have made larger prints with images from my K-01. The thing is, are you looking for that last piece of extra detail? Who is going to see that?
Hi Ron, yes I do sell prints at art, craft and solo shows. Previously as an artist but now more by photography. My latest site is at www. I tend to find myself working between 21mm and 100mm - it varies a lot.

Last edited by BarryE; 02-22-2016 at 11:49 AM.
02-21-2016, 01:22 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Hi Ron, yes I do sell prints at art, craft and solo shows. Previously as an artist but now more by photography. My latest site is at Barry Edge. I tend to find myself working between 21mm and 100mm - it varies a lot.
So basicly you could do with the K-1 and the 24-70mm lens. You probably have the 100mm macro.

Lots of detail in your images. I don't think you absolutely need the K-1. It could improve some to your work.

Will you sell more? I don't think so.

02-21-2016, 01:28 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
So basicly you could do with the K-1 and the 24-70mm lens. You probably have the 100mm macro.

Lots of detail in your images. I don't think you absolutely need the K-1. It could improve some to your work.

Will you sell more? I don't think so.
Thanks Ron. It's trying to quantify cost/convenience against the perceived potential of the k-1 that's going to be difficult. I managed to ignore the 645z, but this may prove harder ...
02-21-2016, 02:30 PM - 2 Likes   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
So would the performance/IQ of the k-1 be noticeably better at ISO 100 with careful shooting technique ? My thoughts are probably not. The k-1, with a more limited and heavier lens selection, counts against it for my need. However, the effort and planning of some shots mean that if there were really a noticeable step up improvement in IQ i'd prefer not to miss it - FOR MY NEEDS.
The K-1 would probably be better. You'll notice a big improvement, especially in terms of resolution and probably also in terms of color accuracy and noise in the sky. FF shines for wide-angle / standard applications while crop is mainly better telephoto, due to its compactness.

What lenses are you using?

Also, don't worry- we'll be sure to post plenty of K-3 comparisons when we do our in-depth review of the camera

Adam
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02-21-2016, 02:44 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
The K-1 would probably be better. You'll notice a big improvement, especially in terms of resolution and probably also in terms of color accuracy and noise in the sky. FF shines for wide-angle / standard applications while crop is mainly better telephoto, due to its compactness.

What lenses are you using?

Also, don't worry- we'll be sure to post plenty of K-3 comparisons when we do our in-depth review of the camera
Thanks Adam. Mostly da* and DA limiteds. Not bothered by resolution, as I'm fine up to A2 sheets. I try not to push too much in post, so noise and artifacts are not being noticed. I added the FL info in previous response, which you may not have caught.

Clearly the interest that the k-1 will/is generating will leave many folk considering the whole package of weight/cost/their current lens's capability across the wider image circle etc etc. Many hours of testing and reviews ahead I suspect ...
02-21-2016, 03:53 PM   #12
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Aside from FF, the improved pixel shift of the K1 could take the images, which are lovely, another step above. So much detail in the foliage, the trees, etc ... that you are someone I could see benefitting from the K1 and pixel shift.

A link to this was just posted elsewhere on the forum: http://diglloyd.com/blog/2016/20160221_1110-PentaxK1-SuperRes-PentaxFlowers.html

The difference is remarkable of std vs. pixel shift. If the pixel shift would work in your environment, It seems like a winner to me.

Last edited by jeffryscott; 02-21-2016 at 04:15 PM.
02-21-2016, 05:00 PM   #13
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I think you will see better results on a monitor but will that advantage transfer to print, that is the question that you might need to ask yourself. A better printing service might get you to the next level?

Just food for thought

Randy
02-22-2016, 12:47 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by slip Quote
I think you will see better results on a monitor but will that advantage transfer to print, that is the question that you might need to ask yourself. A better printing service might get you to the next level?

Just food for thought

Randy
Thanks Randy, I think I've got that covered. I use a Giclee printing shop and print onto Hahnemühle photorag using Adobe 1998 colour space. What you say is very relevant to this discussion. I tested many print options and the very fine nuances in tone and colour that this paper achieved were impressive. Behind glass there's a subtly I like. Would the K-1 improve the tonal range even further and create a little extra sense of depth...? I guess this is what I'm trying to quantify ...

---------- Post added 02-22-16 at 07:52 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jeffryscott Quote
Aside from FF, the improved pixel shift of the K1 could take the images, which are lovely, another step above. So much detail in the foliage, the trees, etc ... that you are someone I could see benefitting from the K1 and pixel shift.

A link to this was just posted elsewhere on the forum: diglloyd: Pentax K1: Super Resolution Mode Appears to be Best DSLR Quality Yet

The difference is remarkable of std vs. pixel shift. If the pixel shift would work in your environment, It seems like a winner to me.
Many thanks Jeffry. In truth I'd never really considered the pixel shift aspect of the K-1. I understand there's been improvements since the K-3ii, which I guess will reveal themselves in time. It is 'environment' aspect that I'm not sure about with pixel shift. Many of my shots are in a breeze (windy) and rain too, which would be a challenge, but it's food for thought - not so much for the resolution, but for the DR lift that pixel shift offers.
02-22-2016, 05:38 AM   #15
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Heh Heh, "giclee," i.e. let's give "inkjet" a french name so we can charge more for it.

Photo Rag is a matte paper, so absolute resolution is not as critical, but from my reading, it can handle individual detail at 600ppi well, so there is definitely room for higher res in your sized prints, and increased detail does contribute a lot to what we perceive as tonal depth in printed images.
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