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02-22-2016, 11:24 AM - 1 Like   #31
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Question for those of you who have used PS in a studio/off camera flash setup - is it capable of managing in a speedlight/strobe environment, or is this a situation where continuous lighting is necessary?

02-22-2016, 11:50 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
[quo
Exactly. Some people are acting like its PS or nothing lol. You still get a great camera for all the non PS shots; where the sensor is probably as good if not better (newer) than the flagships of almost all other brands.

Great news! So this might give PS use outside of studio, still life. This really makes me think twice about the K-1
Another thread says there are PS images up on Ricoh.jp website of a flapping flag and a moving Ferris wheel that are super resolved and don't show artifacts. If that's correct there's more jaw-dropping to come.
02-22-2016, 11:58 AM   #33
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Interesting to note that a similar* feature ("multiscanning" -- the averaging of several scans or 'captures' if you will) has been available to hybrid workflow film/digital users for > 10-years: https://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc23.htm#topic17 (& this might be available in other film-scanning software for all I know). Also mentioned here: http://www.scantips.com/basic13b.html

*(similar != identical)
02-22-2016, 07:35 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
MY wife doesn't need a tripod to kill me. If she wants me dead, I'm dead.

And besides she often brings a bigger tripod than I do.

---------- Post added 02-22-16 at 09:38 AM ----------



I've met hsteeves, he doesn't seem at all spoiled rotten...
I was joking as indicated by the

02-23-2016, 03:13 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zephos Quote
Well aren't you spoiled rotten.
you got it.
02-23-2016, 03:33 AM   #36
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It does sound like Pentax has made pixel shift more useful by having some sort of algorithim that gets rid of artifacts so that you can use it with a light breeze or with waterfalls. To me, it probably will give medium format like images for situations where you can use a tripod. Considering that I don't have money for medium format (although I would love it), I think this will get used a lot. I already take multiple exposures frequently and for landscape work generally use a tripod.

The only concern I have is that the images will probably either be combined in -camera and come out as a jpeg or be a RAW file that is huge that Lightroom doesn't know what to do with. I'll have to wait to see till I have one what the best way to post process these files is.
02-23-2016, 03:53 AM - 1 Like   #37
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I'm wondering how to go about synchronizing flash with Pixel shift. In my experience with 200mp hasselblad multishot backs it is better to use constant high CRI light sources like HMI, LED or Xenon arc lamps. It is rather tedious to use flash as there is a 1/8th upper shutter speed limit involved with using multi shot mode, and since you have to take multiple shots - you have to be sure your flash units recycle fast enough. The slow shutter speed which makes it practically impossible to mix light sources.
02-23-2016, 07:17 AM   #38
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I bet that after the K-1 is bedded down, Pentax will release a revised 645Z with the enhanced version of pixel-shift introduced in the K-1. Seems a logical step.

02-23-2016, 07:41 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I bet that after the K-1 is bedded down, Pentax will release a revised 645Z with the enhanced version of pixel-shift introduced in the K-1. Seems a logical step.
I recall the original 645 design team messing about with the possibility of using IBIS on the 645D - they mentioned that getting the sensor moving wasn't a problem...it was getting the blasted thing to stop moving was the problem.

And at any rate, Hasselblad have their pezio drive pixel shift under an airtight patent, pentax will have to be clever if they intent implement something that approximates it.
02-23-2016, 10:52 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It does sound like Pentax has made pixel shift more useful by having some sort of algorithim that gets rid of artifacts so that you can use it with a light breeze or with waterfalls. To me, it probably will give medium format like images for situations where you can use a tripod. Considering that I don't have money for medium format (although I would love it), I think this will get used a lot. I already take multiple exposures frequently and for landscape work generally use a tripod.

The only concern I have is that the images will probably either be combined in -camera and come out as a jpeg or be a RAW file that is huge that Lightroom doesn't know what to do with. I'll have to wait to see till I have one what the best way to post process these files is.
We don't have K-1s to mess with, but currently you can either do the processing in-camera to get JPEG output (that flower stilllife, eg) or output a RAW. What I haven't seen is proof there is a post processing method of using motion compensation of some sort (aside from what people do now with masking), which would work on RAW. One would not like to have to use JPEG only for PS quality, since RAW is so important. And then there are HDR, brackets, and panoramas where one needs to combine photos, and obviously you'd like that with motion compensation too, preferably outside the camera.

Currently Adobe can process PS images; that's what I used in the photos I posted above. Fancy stuff like separating the four frames requires command line work with a special variant of dcraw, although maybe some applications that use that have incorporated PS support; I dunno.

And even on the K-3II a JPEG PS removes artifacts, but many of us think it does it by using just one frame. How many pixels motion suppression tosses is gonna be pretty key, even with JPG output. With dcraw you can control that.

The RAW files are HUGE. The K-3II RAW PS files are about 130MB each. K-1's will be bigger (each is like four shots, plus some overhead). Plan accordingly. As I noted, Lr and Ps do fine with these, but if your computer storage or speed is limited these may strain things. To be expected.

I'd love to see some RAW or even JPG movement compensation examples; I've seen flags and ferris wheels but they were all K-3II samples.

Here's an example of K-3II, shot on a still day, rock solid support (literally on a rock, and I think 2 sec timer). Artifacts in green channel highlighted via dcraw. As you can see, very few, and on lines with high contrast: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Last edited by Oakland Rob; 02-23-2016 at 11:14 AM.
02-23-2016, 01:24 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I recall the original 645 design team messing about with the possibility of using IBIS on the 645D - they mentioned that getting the sensor moving wasn't a problem...it was getting the blasted thing to stop moving was the problem.

And at any rate, Hasselblad have their pezio drive pixel shift under an airtight patent, pentax will have to be clever if they intent implement something that approximates it.
For Pixelshift it wouldn't be nececary to implement the entire SR thing. As it "only" needs a one-px-movement, maybe that would be less of a challenge and could be done by sliding the sensor an a fixed path or so...
02-23-2016, 01:49 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I recall the original 645 design team messing about with the possibility of using IBIS on the 645D - they mentioned that getting the sensor moving wasn't a problem...it was getting the blasted thing to stop moving was the problem.

And at any rate, Hasselblad have their pezio drive pixel shift under an airtight patent, pentax will have to be clever if they intent implement something that approximates it.
SR patents should be format-independent, so Pentax could use SR for a future 645-series camera... if they can make it work.
However, their solution was in-lens SR.
02-23-2016, 06:54 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
SR patents should be format-independent
format independent patents would be a headache for the industry.

QuoteOriginally posted by sbh Quote
Pixelshift it wouldn't be nececary to implement the entire SR thing. As it "only" needs a one-px-movement, maybe that would be less of a challenge and could be done by sliding the sensor an a fixed path or so
That is basically what Hasselblad is doing, here is an explanation of the Hasselblad multi shot modes:



In 4 shot pixel shifted mode the Hasselblad 200C MFDB takes 20s to make a single image, with the 6 pixel shift shot mode it takes 30 seconds to complete.
02-24-2016, 02:33 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I'm wondering how to go about synchronizing flash with Pixel shift
According to the K-3II user manual, flash is not supported in pixel shift mode. I would expect the same for the K-1.


Steve
02-24-2016, 06:48 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
I'm wondering how it works for really long exposures. You know, landscape where you allow river, waterfall, water waves to blur.

But I think its quite important for studio photography and product photography, and even some nature and macro photography. And these are big things. In these cases it will rival flagships of Canon, Nikon, Sony. The samples I have seen of this feature are quite great (but marketing sample photos cannot be fully trusted, ever)

So in some ways, yes, it can be a game changer. Depends how well photographers put it to use.
IMO, the way some guys do such pictures have to change if they want to make the most out of it.
There is no free lunch, but it should be rewarding if one takes the time to go through the process.

To do a shot that has some motion in it, it will need a pixel shifted shot as well as a separate from w/o pixel shift.
Then its a matter of layering them in PS (or PP program of choice) and masking out the offending areas.
The technique is nothing new, though I'd imagine some older shoots banging the table over having to do this.


I already do this (for shots that I think are worth it).
1. Masking off people
2. Focus blending
3. Exposure blending
4. Traffic flow blending.
etc
So catering for a Pixel shift workflow comes rather 'normal' to me.
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