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repaap · 03-02-2016, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by ffking

no problem with that -the original analogy was about whether it was worth buying a Ferrari if you ONLY use it for grocery shopping - mind you, come to think of it, the point of owning a Ferrari is to be seen in it, so maybe a 5D or1D series would be a better analogy anyway

sorry, just kidding, but. you might also think that is it worth to buy anything else than Ferrari for grocery shopping.

**Rondec** · 03-02-2016, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by Winder

diglloyd DAP - Pentax K3 II (APS-C) - SuperResolution: Zeiss Siemens Test Target (diglloyd.com excerpt)

"Tested with the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art for Pentax K (about $899) because quality with the PENTAX smc FA 31mm f/1.8 Limited was unacceptable."

I get the feeling a lot of the older glass is going to disappoint on the K-1.

Hard to say what the issue was with the FA 31. I've been pretty satisfied with it on APS-C and film and certainly stopped down a little bit, it should shine. Biggest negative about the FA glass is the tendency to purple fringing. Plenty of folks use it on the A7 series cameras currently and it seems to perform decently.

Maybe he had a bad copy?

Winder · 03-02-2016, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by clackers

Why? What's Chambers' claim, Winder?

He ordered the K-3II to test the pixel shift while he waits on the K-1 and the 31mm, but ended up testing the K-3 with the Sigma 35mm because the 31mm "Pentax 31/1.8 did not cut the mustard, so I used the Sigma 35/1.4".

Originally posted by jbinpg

Nowhere did Chambers indicate that he took the time to dial in the 31mm AF.

He is a pretty detail oriented guy.

**Oakland Rob** · 03-02-2016, 08:07 AM

PS on the K3II does show the flaws in any lens very quickly. I think it's a plot by Pentax to get me to buy new lenses....

But in the real world, still worth it. It's just that the lens might be the limiting factor, not the sensor.

infoomatic · 03-02-2016, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Hard to say what the issue was with the FA 31. I've been pretty satisfied with it on APS-C and film and certainly stopped down a little bit, it should shine. Biggest negative about the FA glass is the tendency to purple fringing. Plenty of folks use it on the A7 series cameras currently and it seems to perform decently.

Maybe he had a bad copy?

compared to APS-C where the 31mm is great, on my A7-II this lens really does shine. I am falling in love with this lens over and over again on my A7-II...

Winder · 03-02-2016, 08:36 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

Hard to say what the issue was with the FA 31. I've been pretty satisfied with it on APS-C and film and certainly stopped down a little bit, it should shine. Biggest negative about the FA glass is the tendency to purple fringing. Plenty of folks use it on the A7 series cameras currently and it seems to perform decently.

Maybe he had a bad copy?

He is looking to test the pixel shift, so he is looking for absolute resolution and contrast. The 31mm has great character, color and Bokeh which he is not testing for. For his purposes the 31mm is not the best choice.

normhead · 03-02-2016, 08:42 AM

O.K. I mean honestly, does any of you think there is lens out there that can't be made to purple fringe? I've had purple fringing turn up unexpectedly at times on almost every lens I own, best to worst.

The level of nit-picking can be astounding at times. The only question to be answered is, is ti more prone to fringing than other lenses. One picture can't answer that. One guy saying he's got a lens that would do better without comparison images is just internet posturing.

Anyone who claims that a lens has something wrong with it, like purple fringing, based on one internet image, is also just posturing.

Stick your chest out and pound it when you trash that lens son, so we know where you're coming from.

You're supposed to be a photographer. Figure out which type of image causes fringing for your lens and don't do that. And if someone does, don't blame the lens.

Last edited by normhead; 03-02-2016 at 08:52 AM.

**monochrome** · 03-02-2016, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by Winder

He is looking to test the pixel shift, so he is looking for absolute resolution and contrast. The 31mm has great character, color and Bokeh which he is not testing for. For his purposes the 31mm is not the best choice.

I wish Chambers had said this instead of 'didn't cut the mustard'.

repaap · 03-02-2016, 08:59 AM

Purple fringing is a task for engineers, and is measureable, where as artistic measures are more complicated, that is why it is easy to consentrate on PF instead. I prefer artistic way, and use PF as is/or take it off with LR, if desiered.

And yes, you can force PF out from even best lens out there. But why to do it. Better to use the strenght instead of being sad and depressed of 'Imperfection'(dunno if that is correct word).

Winder · 03-02-2016, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

I wish Chambers had said this instead of 'didn't cut the mustard'.

Pentax K1: Impressive Innovation Unmatched by CaNikon
http://http://diglloyd.com/blog/2016/20160221_1203-PentaxK1-InnovativeFeatures.html

Pentax K1: Super Resolution Mode Appears to be Best DSLR Quality Yet
http://Pentax K1: Super Resolution Mode Appears to be Best DSLR Quality Yet

Like many of us, he seems to be pretty absolute in his statements and that can bother some people.

**Rondec** · 03-02-2016, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Winder

He is looking to test the pixel shift, so he is looking for absolute resolution and contrast. The 31mm has great character, color and Bokeh which he is not testing for. For his purposes the 31mm is not the best choice.

I guess.

If I was testing pixel shift, I would probably use f8 or f11 and most modern lenses would be adequate at that f stop, I would think.

Winder · 03-02-2016, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I guess.

If I was testing pixel shift, I would probably use f8 or f11 and most modern lenses would be adequate at that f stop, I would think.

With an APS-C diffraction limits the resolution to just under 16MP at F/8 so you really would not be able to test a 24MP APS-C sensor at F/8 or F/11. You need to keep it at F/5.6 to take full advantage of the sensor.

This is why people say APS-C lenses need to be sharper at lower apertures compared to lenses for larger formats.

**monochrome** · 03-02-2016, 11:26 AM

I read those on the page befor the result of testing post. Maybe I lack tribal knowledge, so I can't keep up.

Originally posted by Winder

Pentax K1: Impressive Innovation Unmatched by CaNikon
http://http://diglloyd.com/blog/2016/20160221_1203-PentaxK1-InnovativeFeatures.html

Pentax K1: Super Resolution Mode Appears to be Best DSLR Quality Yet
http://Pentax K1: Super Resolution Mode Appears to be Best DSLR Quality Yet

Like many of us, he seems to be pretty absolute in his statements and that can bother some people.

**Rondec** · 03-02-2016, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Winder

With an APS-C diffraction limits the resolution to just under 16MP at F/8 so you really would not be able to test a 24MP APS-C sensor at F/8 or F/11. You need to keep it at F/5.6 to take full advantage of the sensor.

This is why people say APS-C lenses need to be sharper at lower apertures compared to lenses for larger formats.

I think the FA 31 is more than fine on f5.6 on APS-C. It may have some edge sharpness issues on full frame, I don't know for sure, but I still think there is a bad copy issue here if he couldn't use the FA 31 to test pixel shift.

stevebrot · 03-02-2016, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

Biggest negative about the FA glass is the tendency to purple fringing.

Ummmmm...I am not confident that DA or D FA glass is any better...see below...

Originally posted by normhead

O.K. I mean honestly, does any of you think there is lens out there that can't be made to purple fringe?

Yep. That is the opinion of several reputable reviewers out there. The UV and near-UV sensor bloom we call Purple Fringing is closely associated with LoCA and almost all lenses have some degree of LoCA if you test for it*. This is particularly true of fast primes at wide apertures.

Steve

* Some reviewers maintain the viewpoint that all lenses have some degree of LoCA and can be made to show PF with appropriate spectra composition.

03-02-2016, 01:48 PM	#120
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Rondec Biggest negative about the FA glass is the tendency to purple fringing. Ummmmm...I am not confident that DA or D FA glass is any better...see below... Originally posted by normhead O.K. I mean honestly, does any of you think there is lens out there that can't be made to purple fringe? Yep. That is the opinion of several reputable reviewers out there. The UV and near-UV sensor bloom we call Purple Fringing is closely associated with LoCA and almost all lenses have some degree of LoCA if you test for it. This is particularly true of fast primes at wide apertures. Steve Some reviewers maintain the viewpoint that all lenses have some degree of LoCA and can be made to show PF with appropriate spectra composition. Last edited by stevebrot; 03-02-2016 at 01:54 PM.

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03-02-2016, 02:08 AM	#106
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Originally posted by ffking no problem with that -the original analogy was about whether it was worth buying a Ferrari if you ONLY use it for grocery shopping - mind you, come to think of it, the point of owning a Ferrari is to be seen in it, so maybe a 5D or1D series would be a better analogy anyway sorry, just kidding, but. you might also think that is it worth to buy anything else than Ferrari for grocery shopping.

03-02-2016, 03:29 AM	#107
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,666	Originally posted by Winder diglloyd DAP - Pentax K3 II (APS-C) - SuperResolution: Zeiss Siemens Test Target (diglloyd.com excerpt) "Tested with the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art for Pentax K (about $899) because quality with the PENTAX smc FA 31mm f/1.8 Limited was unacceptable." I get the feeling a lot of the older glass is going to disappoint on the K-1. Hard to say what the issue was with the FA 31. I've been pretty satisfied with it on APS-C and film and certainly stopped down a little bit, it should shine. Biggest negative about the FA glass is the tendency to purple fringing. Plenty of folks use it on the A7 series cameras currently and it seems to perform decently. Maybe he had a bad copy?

03-02-2016, 07:19 AM	#108
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by clackers Why? What's Chambers' claim, Winder? He ordered the K-3II to test the pixel shift while he waits on the K-1 and the 31mm, but ended up testing the K-3 with the Sigma 35mm because the 31mm "Pentax 31/1.8 did not cut the mustard, so I used the Sigma 35/1.4". Originally posted by jbinpg Nowhere did Chambers indicate that he took the time to dial in the 31mm AF. He is a pretty detail oriented guy.

03-02-2016, 08:07 AM	#109
Oakland Rob Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Bay Area California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 798	PS on the K3II does show the flaws in any lens very quickly. I think it's a plot by Pentax to get me to buy new lenses.... But in the real world, still worth it. It's just that the lens might be the limiting factor, not the sensor.

03-02-2016, 08:30 AM	#110
infoomatic Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Austria Photos: Gallery Posts: 255	Originally posted by Rondec Hard to say what the issue was with the FA 31. I've been pretty satisfied with it on APS-C and film and certainly stopped down a little bit, it should shine. Biggest negative about the FA glass is the tendency to purple fringing. Plenty of folks use it on the A7 series cameras currently and it seems to perform decently. Maybe he had a bad copy? compared to APS-C where the 31mm is great, on my A7-II this lens really does shine. I am falling in love with this lens over and over again on my A7-II...

03-02-2016, 08:36 AM - 1 Like	#111
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Rondec Hard to say what the issue was with the FA 31. I've been pretty satisfied with it on APS-C and film and certainly stopped down a little bit, it should shine. Biggest negative about the FA glass is the tendency to purple fringing. Plenty of folks use it on the A7 series cameras currently and it seems to perform decently. Maybe he had a bad copy? He is looking to test the pixel shift, so he is looking for absolute resolution and contrast. The 31mm has great character, color and Bokeh which he is not testing for. For his purposes the 31mm is not the best choice.

03-02-2016, 08:42 AM	#112
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	O.K. I mean honestly, does any of you think there is lens out there that can't be made to purple fringe? I've had purple fringing turn up unexpectedly at times on almost every lens I own, best to worst. The level of nit-picking can be astounding at times. The only question to be answered is, is ti more prone to fringing than other lenses. One picture can't answer that. One guy saying he's got a lens that would do better without comparison images is just internet posturing. Anyone who claims that a lens has something wrong with it, like purple fringing, based on one internet image, is also just posturing. Stick your chest out and pound it when you trash that lens son, so we know where you're coming from. You're supposed to be a photographer. Figure out which type of image causes fringing for your lens and don't do that. And if someone does, don't blame the lens. Last edited by normhead; 03-02-2016 at 08:52 AM.

03-02-2016, 08:52 AM	#113
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Winder He is looking to test the pixel shift, so he is looking for absolute resolution and contrast. The 31mm has great character, color and Bokeh which he is not testing for. For his purposes the 31mm is not the best choice. I wish Chambers had said this instead of 'didn't cut the mustard'.

03-02-2016, 08:59 AM	#114
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Purple fringing is a task for engineers, and is measureable, where as artistic measures are more complicated, that is why it is easy to consentrate on PF instead. I prefer artistic way, and use PF as is/or take it off with LR, if desiered. And yes, you can force PF out from even best lens out there. But why to do it. Better to use the strenght instead of being sad and depressed of 'Imperfection'(dunno if that is correct word).

03-02-2016, 09:02 AM	#115
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by monochrome I wish Chambers had said this instead of 'didn't cut the mustard'. Pentax K1: Impressive Innovation Unmatched by CaNikon http://http://diglloyd.com/blog/2016/20160221_1203-PentaxK1-InnovativeFeatures.html Pentax K1: Super Resolution Mode Appears to be Best DSLR Quality Yet http://Pentax K1: Super Resolution Mode Appears to be Best DSLR Quality Yet Like many of us, he seems to be pretty absolute in his statements and that can bother some people.

03-02-2016, 09:02 AM	#116
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,666	Originally posted by Winder He is looking to test the pixel shift, so he is looking for absolute resolution and contrast. The 31mm has great character, color and Bokeh which he is not testing for. For his purposes the 31mm is not the best choice. I guess. If I was testing pixel shift, I would probably use f8 or f11 and most modern lenses would be adequate at that f stop, I would think.

03-02-2016, 09:25 AM	#117
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Rondec I guess. If I was testing pixel shift, I would probably use f8 or f11 and most modern lenses would be adequate at that f stop, I would think. With an APS-C diffraction limits the resolution to just under 16MP at F/8 so you really would not be able to test a 24MP APS-C sensor at F/8 or F/11. You need to keep it at F/5.6 to take full advantage of the sensor. This is why people say APS-C lenses need to be sharper at lower apertures compared to lenses for larger formats.

03-02-2016, 11:26 AM	#118
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	I read those on the page befor the result of testing post. Maybe I lack tribal knowledge, so I can't keep up. Originally posted by Winder Pentax K1: Impressive Innovation Unmatched by CaNikon http://http://diglloyd.com/blog/2016/20160221_1203-PentaxK1-InnovativeFeatures.html Pentax K1: Super Resolution Mode Appears to be Best DSLR Quality Yet http://Pentax K1: Super Resolution Mode Appears to be Best DSLR Quality Yet Like many of us, he seems to be pretty absolute in his statements and that can bother some people.

03-02-2016, 11:35 AM	#119
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,666	Originally posted by Winder With an APS-C diffraction limits the resolution to just under 16MP at F/8 so you really would not be able to test a 24MP APS-C sensor at F/8 or F/11. You need to keep it at F/5.6 to take full advantage of the sensor. This is why people say APS-C lenses need to be sharper at lower apertures compared to lenses for larger formats. I think the FA 31 is more than fine on f5.6 on APS-C. It may have some edge sharpness issues on full frame, I don't know for sure, but I still think there is a bad copy issue here if he couldn't use the FA 31 to test pixel shift.

K-1 FF Pixel Shift--Disrupting the Status Quo?

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