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02-23-2016, 11:37 AM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
I prefer OVF by miles.
I tried out some EVFs when buying my camera and I just HATED them.
Being European, I prefer OVF by kilometers
They're much nicer to my eyes.

02-23-2016, 11:41 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I prefer OVF by kilometers
Same here...
But the expression is miles not kilometers...
I actually changed it to KM then changed it back to M
02-23-2016, 12:40 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
I prefer OVF by miles.
I tried out some EVFs when buying my camera and I just HATED them.
I REALY tried to like the EVF in the Sony A7's. Coming from a Pentax K-5, I prefer compact form factor DSLR's, but have found I now need the additional sensor real estate of full-frame.

Comparing the two cameras side-by-side, the K-5's OVF has more color depth and clarity. The EVF was just too contrasty (little detail in highlights) especially when shooting outside, and the Sony has one of the best EVF's available.

In this test of viewfinders, I tried not to be overly influenced by Pentax's ergonomics, but in comparison the A7 models felt like grasping a brick w. a lens mounted on it. Glad I held off on the purchase, and now looking forward to the K-1 which should fill my personal preferences (and budget) much better.

Last edited by *Rich; 02-23-2016 at 12:55 PM.
02-23-2016, 12:46 PM - 1 Like   #19
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Pentax is a conservative company... when asked about EVF, they were quite clear.. it's not there yet. Just because it's good enough for many Sony users, doesn't mean Pentax is going to adopt it, until it meets their standards, whatever those are. Over time, I've been pretty happy with Pentaax's standards, so, no way I'm going to tell them to change. I do find it interesting that they are keeping an eye on it. I also find it interesting that they find what is out there to date, inadequate. That's like me. What a coincidence.

02-23-2016, 01:51 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by shardulm Quote
It does.

OVFs are the best you can get. Besides the EVF and LV add a toll on the processor, may cause heat issues, drains battery (the biggest con) pretty fast. I don't see why should the battery power be wasted in another places than the sensor operation, SD R/W operation and the camera operation. It just requires a higher capacity batter and or reduced no of pictures per battery. Besides that the EVF does not aid manual focusing at all. LV and focus peaking does and I use it at times. I also don't agree that it aids composition and if so how. You have 100% fov in the OVF..duh?
EVF and LV are painstakingly slow to use in a fast paced environment like events etc. There is no time to live view and take pictures and the battery dies sooner than you like.

Asking for an EVF instead of an OVF is like asking for a car with a 60" Xtrawide TV screen instead of a transparent glass windshield in the front. <-- yeah imagine that. That is how I feel about not having an OVF.
Well I must have used different EVFs to you, because manual focusing with an EVF is leagues ahead of an OVF for peaking and enlargement.....duh. Plus you get an accurate view of what your exposure will be, no surprises when you press the shutter button.

As I also said, the EVF would help with longer lenses as it would have a stabilized view, unlike the K3-K1 which will be far more difficult with an OVF and no stabilized view through the lens.

I am not concerned about battery life, not on a K1 or 645z as I am a landscape shooter and it wouldn't be any different to using the screen.

Anyway, you all here are so hung up on OVFs and completely unable to see my view and that's fine, it's just the way it is.

Also Shardulm, go and try a canon DSLR with a 100-400 IS II and see how good the stabilizer is for assisting in composition and keeping a stable hand when at 400mm, you might be enlightened as to how good it is and how much we are missing out on in the pentax system in its current form.

For everybody who thinks I am taking a shot at your baby, did anybody fail to see that I complimented it and said I am going to buy one?

---------- Post added 02-24-16 at 06:57 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I think a hybrid viewfinder would be amazing, and rather innovative. But for now I'll definite settle for the bendy display. That was also quite clever!
I think you are right Adam, the ability for both would be ok, something hybrid.

You can't deny what Sony are achieving in the AF department on the A7rII and especially the new A6300 for on-sensor autofocus and tracking. Miles ahead of the competition, with real time refresh of the viewfinder in burst mode.

I think the future of the sports camera 1Dx type will be full time on chip AF and no mirror.
02-23-2016, 02:18 PM - 1 Like   #21
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It's still a preference item, a benefit exchange, not a benefit improvement. I place no value on the benefits you cite. They're choices, not requirements.

My statement has nothing to do with the K-1 in particular. It isn't my baby.
02-23-2016, 02:21 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
I have made it known on this forum that I don't feel like there is a place for OVFs on DSLRs any more, or at least no excuse not to include an optional EVF. This I am still standing firm on, especially with a FF sensor with sensor shift stabilisation. One of the major advantages in stabilisation is the stable viewfinder image. This you do not get on the K-1.

However, I have also said in the past that if the feature set was enough, that I can look past the above shortcomings and deal with yet another OVF until the time that they are disposed of. I use an OVF on the 645z and its ok for now.

So..........

I am all but 100% certain that I am going to get a K-1. It has a amazing blend of performance, unique features, stunning image quality, Pentax "X factor", beautiful handling (no doubt) and more.

The pixel shift sample still life image on the Ricoh website is the best I have seen from any digital FF sensor to date, and thats only a JPG, not the RAW file. Simply stunning colour depth and resolution. Add to that the Astrotracer function and I am sold.

One can only hope that Zeiss start re-issuing the ZK series of lenses. Oh boy how good would a Zeiss ZK 15mm f/2.8 be! Or even more, an Otus 85mm!

My $0.02 for what its worth.

Scott
" ... One can only hope that Zeiss start re-issuing the ZK series of lenses. Oh boy how good would a Zeiss ZK 15mm f/2.8 be! Or even more, an Otus 85mm!"
If you need one, check the Marketplace. Always some deals there. I'd be surprised if Zeiss ever re-establish the ZK (Pentax mount) line.
02-23-2016, 03:28 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
Well I must have used different EVFs to you, because manual focusing with an EVF is leagues ahead of an OVF for peaking and enlargement.....duh. Plus you get an accurate view of what your exposure will be, no surprises when you press the shutter button.

As I also said, the EVF would help with longer lenses as it would have a stabilized view, unlike the K3-K1 which will be far more difficult with an OVF and no stabilized view through the lens.

I am not concerned about battery life, not on a K1 or 645z as I am a landscape shooter and it wouldn't be any different to using the screen.

Anyway, you all here are so hung up on OVFs and completely unable to see my view and that's fine, it's just the way it is.

Also Shardulm, go and try a canon DSLR with a 100-400 IS II and see how good the stabilizer is for assisting in composition and keeping a stable hand when at 400mm, you might be enlightened as to how good it is and how much we are missing out on in the pentax system in its current form.

For everybody who thinks I am taking a shot at your baby, did anybody fail to see that I complimented it and said I am going to buy one?

---------- Post added 02-24-16 at 06:57 AM ----------



I think you are right Adam, the ability for both would be ok, something hybrid.

You can't deny what Sony are achieving in the AF department on the A7rII and especially the new A6300 for on-sensor autofocus and tracking. Miles ahead of the competition, with real time refresh of the viewfinder in burst mode.

I think the future of the sports camera 1Dx type will be full time on chip AF and no mirror.
I like both kinds of viewfinders if they are done well, but the biggest advantage to a good EVF in my experience is being able to compose and focus at F8 or smaller. On an OVF, the finder gets too dark with the depth of field view to be useful. Also, focus peaking at eye level is a game changer for me on MF lenses. I find I get focus more quickly and accurately than ever. I like getting face detection and the point of focus following a subject as the camera moves. The Sony A6000 PD/CD focus system is ahead of anything I have used. The shutter noise on the A7R is sounds like it has a mirror, but not having a mirror flipping away and shutting off your view is a relief. The A6000 is significantly quieter.

There are lots of nice things about an OVF, too, including the instantaneous view, but it surprises me how many just throw one or the other away as not useful.

02-23-2016, 04:44 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I like both kinds of viewfinders if they are done well, but the biggest advantage to a good EVF in my experience is being able to compose and focus at F8 or smaller. On an OVF, the finder gets too dark with the depth of field view to be useful. Also, focus peaking at eye level is a game changer for me on MF lenses. I find I get focus more quickly and accurately than ever. I like getting face detection and the point of focus following a subject as the camera moves. The Sony A6000 PD/CD focus system is ahead of anything I have used. The shutter noise on the A7R is sounds like it has a mirror, but not having a mirror flipping away and shutting off your view is a relief. The A6000 is significantly quieter.

There are lots of nice things about an OVF, too, including the instantaneous view, but it surprises me how many just throw one or the other away as not useful.
Yes, my experience using Olympus and also for exposing in tricky situations using blinkies indicating over or under and at night when an OVF is quite tricky to use - street light shots, etc. After three months or so of using an EVF for the first time, I now would not go back to an OVF unless I had to. That said, what any one individual thinks is irrelevant. Camera-makers have to service a whole market and see which way their market swings. I'd guess that EVFs becoming predominant is pretty inevitable but not right now and not at the same rate of change for every manufacturer.
02-23-2016, 08:08 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
You can't deny what Sony are achieving in the AF department on the A7rII and especially the new A6300 for on-sensor autofocus and tracking. Miles ahead of the competition, with real time refresh of the viewfinder in burst mode.

I think the future of the sports camera 1Dx type will be full time on chip AF and no mirror.
yes, it's a no-brainer, and it's bigger than just evf vs. ovf.

the a7rii proved that losing the mirror can also give you zero vibration of any kind all the way up to 1/1000th, in all shooting situations, via efcs, which afaik, no dslr has ever been able to do.
02-24-2016, 04:24 AM   #26
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EVF versus OVF discussions are not resolvable, because they are purely matters of opinion and taste. I very seldom use manual focus and have found focus peaking to be not specific enough for shallow depth of field situations. The only solution is to zoom in on the feature you want in focus and use your EVF in that fashion. Not particularly great for anything moving, but can work for portraiture and landscapes. Anyway, all of that said, I want decent auto focus and not more stuff cluttering up my viewfinder. Add to that the shorter battery life with EVFs and the fact that they may increase noise by keeping the sensor hotter and I'll pass.

But, if Pentax released a K-02 with a full frame sensor and an EVF, I would certainly consider it.
02-24-2016, 09:44 AM - 2 Likes   #27
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I think that in this day and age, view finders in general, O or E, is in many ways overrated and inconsequential. In the old days of films, you didn't get the results back until you had them developed. These days you can look at them the moment after you shot it. And, if you don't like it you can shoot it again and again until you are satisfied. This repetitive process, if you do it enough times, eventually will develop a feel for what the pictures will look like, even without looking in the view finder at all. At least that has been my experience.
02-25-2016, 07:51 AM   #28
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Are EVF's capable of resolving the full resolution of the image I'm about to take?

Genuine question, I've never used one.

I want whatever is the clearest view of my potential shot. Will an EVF show me all fringing in advance?

Like a lot of the rational discussion, it seems to be "What's your preference?"

Last edited by Trees; 02-25-2016 at 08:02 AM.
02-25-2016, 01:45 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
EVF versus OVF discussions are not resolvable, because they are purely matters of opinion and taste. I very seldom use manual focus and have found focus peaking to be not specific enough for shallow depth of field situations.
May not be resolvable indeed, because that is exactly my complaint with Pentax focus screens in an OVF. I do use lots of manual focus, and find focus peaking light years ahead of ground glass. I just roll up the line of sparklers to my subject, even if it is moving. Like anything else, these are all skills we either develop or don't or feel we don't need.

---------- Post added 02-25-16 at 01:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I think that in this day and age, view finders in general, O or E, is in many ways overrated and inconsequential. In the old days of films, you didn't get the results back until you had them developed. These days you can look at them the moment after you shot it. And, if you don't like it you can shoot it again and again until you are satisfied. This repetitive process, if you do it enough times, eventually will develop a feel for what the pictures will look like, even without looking in the view finder at all. At least that has been my experience.
I feel a bit like that with TTL flash, too.
02-25-2016, 02:14 PM   #30
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Regarding OVF/EVF - like many here, judging by the age poll, I've spent more years shooting film than digital so my brain is used to translating how something looks in reality to how will look on film or as a digital picture - but i like to have the memory of what it actually looked like in my mind - a sort of super-RAW image, if you like, acting as a reference image. I can fiddle all I please in Lightroom, and the result might not end up looking much like what I saw, but at least I know what I saw - directly through glass - and I know I can also imagine it spruced up as I look at it. To me that's important - even if I compose in live view on the rear LCD - I'm looking at the actual scene too - I just prefer a more direct vision of the subject, all technical matters aside - although I'm always happy to admit that I might just be resistant to change
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