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04-15-2016, 10:21 AM   #151
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... and the K-3 won TIPA's Best Digital SLR Expert award in 2014

In 2015, the KS-2 won the Advanced section award, and there are other Ricoh products in the awards list too

04-15-2016, 07:23 PM - 1 Like   #152
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It looks like pentax completely forgot about ergonomics in the ks2 (Ks1 looks like they tried to make it as unergonomic as they could), menus look like a throwback to the K20, has a massive 11 focus points (why not just a d3100) , and only shoots video in 2009 cell phone resolution. What makes the NX1 so nice is it doesn't put tech before user experience. Impressive weather sealing, I will say that though. Chris from tsctv (look em on youtube) dunks the thing in the water and it was fine. It's stands up the elements well, but the same ruggedness seems like it's being taken to heart with the user experience. I can't speak to this directly as i don't own it, but this really came through on the k20, where it relied heavily on numbers. For example, the custom settings was a confusing mess of arconyms and numbers that was useless without out the manual. The Ks2 quite a bit better in this regard at a quick glance at the manual and if I had to get a pentax this just might be it, but it's an upper entry level camera, sort at the same level as the d5000 series from nikon.

The only pentax that's at the price point Im looking at is the K3ii and it has the same slow live view af that my nikon has (I intend to make live view a bigger part of my workflow), only shoots 1080p, not as good in low light, it's heavier, and I seriously doubt it can track at whopping 15 fps.

AF coverage and density is an issue too as a portrait shooter.




---------- Post added 04-15-16 at 07:31 PM ----------

It's not marketing. That's just a cop out. Better marketing would help granted, but we live in a social media age. If pentax cameras were changing the lives of pros, we would be hearing about it on social media and before you know it people who want to take pictures of their kids would be raving about them too. But it doesn't seem like pentax has managed to appeal to either. No one buys camera magazines anymore to choose their next camera. When I wanted to see what to replace my nikon gear with, I went online and started looking at what the various companies were offering, sample images, reviews, etc. Pentax can be found on dpreview and every major youtube photography channel reviews them.

I think pentax deserves more attention than it gets. Some of their cameras do offer quite a bit at the price point, but they alienate themselves with the quirky looks and dated, not entirely fleshed out features that often fall short of expectations (video the 645 for example.) Pentax reminds me a bit of myself when i was in the early stages of the job hunt. I was blaming everything on everything else where it was really ME that had to improve with a better resume, portfolio, etc. If pentax wants to be have a spot in more camera stores, they need to give them a reason to do so. They aren't going to put up a pentax section unless there is a demand for them.

Pentax needs to stop neglecting video and connectivity. If they are going to stick with the dslr way of doing things (which is slightly out of touch with the state of things) then they need to focus on market trends. If they can make it easy and painless to connect the next K mount camera to your phone, email pictures, etc. then they will already be in a much better place.

Last edited by neostyles; 04-15-2016 at 07:40 PM.
04-15-2016, 07:39 PM - 1 Like   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote

AF coverage and density is an issue too as a portrait shooter.

When I shoot portraits, Neostyles, extra AF points are distractions from my focus and recompose routine. I don't want them to go for a tip of the nose instead of the eye. I work fast and casually instead of twiddling with buttons, so that the relationship between me and the subject isn't broken. My thoughts, eyes and conversation are with them, not my camera.


I have never had a problem with even the K-30's AF setup, on fast moving rodeo riders or models stationary under an octabox. What you're talking about is a beatup. You don't understand Pentax or Samsung, you shoot neither, you just regurgitate YouTube videos and press releases.


K-30, Sigma 17-50mm f2.8 at f7.1 and 31mm, 1/125s, ISO 100.



Last edited by clackers; 04-15-2016 at 07:48 PM.
04-15-2016, 07:53 PM   #154
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Do you need to own a certain model of car to know that being able to go from 0 to 60 in 3 seconds is really fast? The camera can only focus where there are af points, and while your shot is quite nice, my d600 has only around 50% frame coverage like the average pentax, recomposing often leads to missed shots. Recomposing is rapidly becoming a dated way of working and is there because traditionally we haven't had edge to edge coverage. Micro expressions change in a model with each passing second and this can sometimes make the difference between a good shot and an amazing one. It just slows you down. The number of points would be distracting in a conventional dslr, but in every video that I have see they are invisible until they have a job to do. Having denser, tightly packed focus points seems like it would help you focus on finer details, especially since with the nx1 you can just touch the screen. It's like buying more lotto tickets. Much better chances that you will get the lucky number

04-15-2016, 09:27 PM   #155
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Wally Styles,did I read this correctly?....you don't actually own a NX1?
04-16-2016, 01:13 AM   #156
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Are we discussing Pentax entry level vs. Samsung's flagship, on a topic related to the new Pentax K-1? Really?
Next, I expect to hear about how Pentax cameras don't chill food as well as Samsung fridges, nor do they heat the food as Samsung microwave ovens. All in the name of fairness and desire for Pentax to succeed!

And of course, not a word about the K-1's tremendous image quality - I'd say the best of all FF cameras, once we factor in Pixel Shift Resolution. By the way, the NX-1 is not the best in AF from all APS-C cameras And you can't actually autofocus it at all, nor take pictures with it unless you got fooled and ditched your perfectly working DSLR for a NX just before Samsung exiting the camera business.
Pentax-Samsung: 2:0
04-16-2016, 01:23 AM   #157
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@neostyles - so have you decided which manufacturer and camera system you're going for, then? It doesn't matter so long as it works well for you.
04-16-2016, 06:55 AM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote





---------- Post added 04-15-16 at 07:31 PM ----------

It's not marketing. That's just a cop out. Better marketing would help granted, but we live in a social media age. If pentax cameras were changing the lives of pros, we would be hearing about it on social media and before you know it people who want to take pictures of their kids would be raving about them too. But it doesn't seem like pentax has managed to appeal to either. No one buys camera magazines anymore to choose their next camera. When I wanted to see what to replace my nikon gear with, I went online and started looking at what the various companies were offering, sample images, reviews, etc. Pentax can be found on dpreview and every major youtube photography channel reviews them.


Well, I think you just proved you don't know what you are talking about.


Yes we do live in the social media age but the last time I saw any thing on social media about Pentax was in February right after the announcement of the K1 on Facebook. In the mean time, I have seen ads for Nikon and Sigma at least twice a week on Facebook. BTW, youtube and dpreview are not social media.


Your right, a lot of so called pros don't use Pentax because they require, for whatever reason, a full size sensor which Pentax is now offering and your local soccer mom isn't going to go to youtube, dpreview, or any other website to research a camera to buy. Soccer mom's normally go like this,



Mom1- I like your pictures. Where did you get your camera? I would like to take pictures like that.
Mom 2- I bought it at Walmart. It was around 300 dollars and everybody is telling me now I can be a pro.
Mom 1- Wow! Really? If that is all they cost maybe I'll go get one and become a pro too.


And that is why a lot of people buy Nikon. I wonder what it would be like if Ricoh-Pentax started to put the lower end apsc cameras in Walmart?


Lastly, if nobody is still buying photo magazines to look for there next camera, then why are the camera companys buying ad space in the magazines? For that matter, why are there still magazines being sold on news stands? We live in a social media world after all. Just a shame some people don't know how to be social.

04-16-2016, 07:08 AM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigdavephoto Quote
Lastly, if nobody is still buying photo magazines to look for there next camera, then why are the camera companys buying ad space in the magazines? For that matter, why are there still magazines being sold on news stands?
I agree. If you look on the shelves of any newsagent in the UK, they are inundated with photography magazines. I don't buy many these days, but I do still buy Amateur Photographer pretty much every week. I could get the same info online, but it's nice to sit with a coffee and thumb through a real magazine. And you see plenty of advertisers offering their wares week after week, year after year, in that particular publication.

With books, I own a Kindle which I like very much, but it doesn't compare to the simple enjoyment of reading a paper book - so I still tend to buy almost as many "real" books as I ever did...
04-16-2016, 07:15 AM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
It looks like pentax completely forgot about ergonomics in the ks2 (Ks1 looks like they tried to make it as unergonomic as they could), menus look like a throwback to the K20, has a massive 11 focus points (why not just a d3100) , and only shoots video in 2009 cell phone resolution. What makes the NX1 so nice is it doesn't put tech before user experience. Impressive weather sealing, I will say that though. Chris from tsctv (look em on youtube) dunks the thing in the water and it was fine. It's stands up the elements well, but the same ruggedness seems like it's being taken to heart with the user experience. I can't speak to this directly as i don't own it, but this really came through on the k20, where it relied heavily on numbers. For example, the custom settings was a confusing mess of arconyms and numbers that was useless without out the manual. The Ks2 quite a bit better in this regard at a quick glance at the manual and if I had to get a pentax this just might be it, but it's an upper entry level camera, sort at the same level as the d5000 series from nikon.

The only pentax that's at the price point Im looking at is the K3ii and it has the same slow live view af that my nikon has (I intend to make live view a bigger part of my workflow), only shoots 1080p, not as good in low light, it's heavier, and I seriously doubt it can track at whopping 15 fps.

AF coverage and density is an issue too as a portrait shooter.




---------- Post added 04-15-16 at 07:31 PM ----------

It's not marketing. That's just a cop out. Better marketing would help granted, but we live in a social media age. If pentax cameras were changing the lives of pros, we would be hearing about it on social media and before you know it people who want to take pictures of their kids would be raving about them too. But it doesn't seem like pentax has managed to appeal to either. No one buys camera magazines anymore to choose their next camera. When I wanted to see what to replace my nikon gear with, I went online and started looking at what the various companies were offering, sample images, reviews, etc. Pentax can be found on dpreview and every major youtube photography channel reviews them.

I think pentax deserves more attention than it gets. Some of their cameras do offer quite a bit at the price point, but they alienate themselves with the quirky looks and dated, not entirely fleshed out features that often fall short of expectations (video the 645 for example.) Pentax reminds me a bit of myself when i was in the early stages of the job hunt. I was blaming everything on everything else where it was really ME that had to improve with a better resume, portfolio, etc. If pentax wants to be have a spot in more camera stores, they need to give them a reason to do so. They aren't going to put up a pentax section unless there is a demand for them.

Pentax needs to stop neglecting video and connectivity. If they are going to stick with the dslr way of doing things (which is slightly out of touch with the state of things) then they need to focus on market trends. If they can make it easy and painless to connect the next K mount camera to your phone, email pictures, etc. then they will already be in a much better place.
There's no getting away from the fact that more focus points (hundreds) spread across the majority (>90%) of the sensor area is superior to a few clustered around the centre of the frame. Such capability adds to the photographic toolbox.
04-16-2016, 08:15 AM - 1 Like   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Are we discussing Pentax entry level vs. Samsung's flagship, on a topic related to the new Pentax K-1? Really?
Not really. If you look at his posts analytically all you will see are random paragraphs describing what in his opinion are the weaknesses of Pentax with some occasional highpoints listed from some other brand, any other brand. There is no discussion here.

He is however, very good at this though. So I can say I admire his skill at keeping us all interested.
04-16-2016, 08:31 AM   #162
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No, he's not that good - it's just that on this forum, such things are allowed as long as people keep a civil appearance.

HopelessTogger: The total number of AF points and frame coverage doesn't matter, I'd say. What matters, in that decisive moment, is to have an AF point exactly where you want it
04-16-2016, 08:32 AM   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by HopelessTogger Quote
There's no getting away from the fact that more focus points (hundreds) spread across the majority (>90%) of the sensor area is superior to a few clustered around the centre of the frame. Such capability adds to the photographic toolbox.
To a point this is true but there is a point where it becomes a marketing item more than a useful item there has to be space between the points if the points get to close together it is harder to get focus on a exact point.
04-16-2016, 08:54 AM   #164
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Indeed, this and the FPS are the current marketing items for the MILC movement.
The DSLRs are naturally restricted on both counts:

- the DSLRs using a secondary AF system have problems - due to restrictions imposed by the design of their primary and secondary mirror - covering a large part of the frame. For MILCs and DSLRs in Live View mode, you can have sensors capable of autofocusing right to the extreme corners (but if your subject is there, then you're doing something wrong).
There are solutions, of course. Nikon D500 is using a FF AF system, so it has coverage similar to the NX-1; it's also a $2000 camera. Ricoh Image has a yet unimplemented patent for a new mirror system, for extending the frame coverage.

- as the sensors can transfer data faster (the resolution being limited, to make it work) the mirrors start to be a bottleneck. The D500 and the 7DMkII can "only" do 10fps. The NX-1 is surpassed only by the 1DxMk II.
It doesn't matter if people need such high speeds or not. They looks nice in a spec sheet, and that's exactly what the marketing wants.

Anyway, the K-1 doesn't try to compete in neither areas so the discussion is quite irrelevant. It's an affordable image quality monster.
04-16-2016, 09:24 AM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by HopelessTogger Quote
There's no getting away from the fact that more focus points (hundreds) spread across the majority (>90%) of the sensor area is superior to a few clustered around the centre of the frame. Such capability adds to the photographic toolbox.
It is 'superior' only if the photographer has a need for this. Granted I suppose some do. The first thing I do with a new camera is put it in single center point focus and never touch it again. So anything more than one focus point is simply a waste of resources, for me.
I'm relatively immune to marketing hype as well but when faced with making a decision and picking "brand x" over "brand z" I'll admit sometimes all you can do is look at the specs, and even if you don't need 245 AF points that certainly SEEMS better than 33 so the camera with the better specs gets the nod, pricing being neutral of course.

At this point I know enough about what I want in a camera that I can ignore the hype (mostly). But from a marketing standpoint beating the other guys in meaningless specifications is a necessary part of the game.
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