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04-19-2016, 03:08 PM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
A couple months ago when I thought my K-30 was dead (it wasn't) I checked with Robert's because I was in a tight spot. They had no less than four used K-30's in stock in their downtown location, and two of them were even white. I thought that was interesting since I practically never see another Pentax DSLR in these parts.

I just can't believe that it's really such an insurmountable obstacle for Pentax to get DSLR's into stores. Afterall, they already have Pentax p&s cameras in hundreds of stores across the country. I think it's a business decision they've made for the US market, the reasons for which I cannot understand. Just like they have made the decision to do almost no advertising or other promotion in the US.


That's the weird thing about Robert's, in the used store on the website, last time I looked, they have quite a few Pentax items for sale but no local pick up. And when I say quite a few, I'm talking 200 to 300 or more. The no local pick up is telling me that these items are kept in a different storage location then what the store uses. A couple of months ago, I was looking at the used items on the website and they had 8 or 10 K-01's and around 40, 18-55 kit lenses. Some of them were the WR version. Where are they getting them from, your guess is as good as mine.

04-19-2016, 03:49 PM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
What I said above applies to retail camera stores as well, but even more so. Small stores are often inventory dollars limited, meaning they have only so much money available to put inventory on the shelf. Manufacturers often help by offering extended dated. For example in the industry I work in it is common to ship product to the store in December or January and provide the store with a bill due June 30th. Essentially giving them a 6 month 'loan'. Of course the retailers pay for that loan in higher prices but usually they do not notice that.

So if a small camera store has limited shelf space and limited inventory dollars why would they allocate any of that to a brand that will command at best 5 to 10% of their sales? In other words, 80% of the customers that walk in the door can be taken care of by offering Nikon and Canon. Why risk money bringing in another brand for the small percentage of people who might be interested?

Ricoh could get back into camera stores but they would have to offer incentives to make that happen. That could be extended dating, slotting fees, sales spiffs, even guaranteed sales. I don't see any of that happening for the small mom & pop store because even if Ricoh offered all of that the sales volume would not justify the cost to Ricoh.
The cost of inventory is basically the cost of floor space, item accounting and bank interest. The latter is what drove a lot of slow-moving goods out of inventories when the cost of money spiked in Western countries 30-odd years ago, but the cost of renting retail space in shopping complexes has overtaken it at least in relative terms as interest rates have fallen, since. Nonetheless, extending time to pay, or even selling goods on commission are strategies that would reduce the risk for the retailer. The cost of floor space is another matter, but it will be interesting to see how the boutique store in Paris fares in the longer term.
04-19-2016, 04:21 PM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The cost of inventory is basically the cost of floor space, item accounting and bank interest.
It is a little more complicated for small retailers who have to decide where to put their money. Large chains benefit from either cash reserves or bank lines of credit. Smaller retailers do not always have access to large lines of credit regardless of the interest rate. This has been especially difficult the last 4 years in the US.

New government banking regulations have forced banks out of many markets regardless of the credit worthiness of the store. These regulations seem to be an over-reactive pendulum swing from regulations that made it ridiculously easy to get a loan before. We have had many stores in my industry simply be denied a line of credit despite 20 plus years of excellent credit and a relationship with the same bank. Interest rates are cheap but if the bank will not or cannot grant the loan it does not matter.

Turns are also important and something any retailer is going to look at closely. Turns being how many times will I sell through that inventory. For Canon / Nikon they have a good idea what that number is. For a new brand that is unknown, and retailers hate unknowns.
04-19-2016, 06:05 PM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Turns are also important and something any retailer is going to look at closely. Turns being how many times will I sell through that inventory. For Canon / Nikon they have a good idea what that number is. For a new brand that is unknown, and retailers hate unknowns.
None of this has stopped big retailers in the US from stocking large-sensor/ILC and luxury compact cameras from relative newcomers such as Olympus, Panasonic, Samsung, Fuji and Sony. Not to mention the new and unproven Nikon 1 and Canon EOS M systems. So why does Pentax maintain an absence in US store displays year after year? The generic theories and thin excuses offered here just don't adequately explain it for me...


Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 04-19-2016 at 06:16 PM.
04-19-2016, 06:16 PM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
luxury compact cameras from relative newcomers such as Olympus, Panasonic, Samsung, Fuji and Sony. Not to mention the new and unproven Nikon 1 system.
I have not seen much in the way of Olympus or Panasonic or Fuji. I have seen large displays for Sony and the Nikon 1 system.

For Nikon 1, I saw a huge dedicated and custom built (ie provided by Nikon) endcap at Bestbuy. Went back a month later to look again as I was interested in a small 1" sensor camera and the entire display was gone. I asked and was told that the display had been installed and that sales had not met expectations so it was gone.

For Sony at Bestbuy they have a large Sony dedicated display with Sony graphics and display props. I do not know this for sure but I believe the entire display was either provided or funded by Sony. The point being that without financial incentives from the manufacturer nether of those displays would have been in Bestbuy.
QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
So why does Pentax maintain an absence in US store displays year after year?
Because it costs huge money. And they do not (yet) have all the pieces in place. People have been clamoring for a huge marketing / advertising campaign and budget. But that makes no sense if you have nothing to sell. And despite turning out some good cameras I do not think Ricoh was ready. When the returns are there they might try. But I really do not see them paying the kind of money it will take to get a big box presence in the USA.
04-19-2016, 06:40 PM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I have not seen much in the way of Olympus or Panasonic or Fuji. I have seen large displays for Sony and the Nikon 1 system.

For Nikon 1, I saw a huge dedicated and custom built (ie provided by Nikon) endcap at Bestbuy. Went back a month later to look again as I was interested in a small 1" sensor camera and the entire display was gone. I asked and was told that the display had been installed and that sales had not met expectations so it was gone.

For Sony at Bestbuy they have a large Sony dedicated display with Sony graphics and display props. I do not know this for sure but I believe the entire display was either provided or funded by Sony. The point being that without financial incentives from the manufacturer nether of those displays would have been in Bestbuy.

Because it costs huge money. And they do not (yet) have all the pieces in place. People have been clamoring for a huge marketing / advertising campaign and budget. But that makes no sense if you have nothing to sell. And despite turning out some good cameras I do not think Ricoh was ready. When the returns are there they might try. But I really do not see them paying the kind of money it will take to get a big box presence in the USA.

Kinda a catch 22. We don't have a budget for ads because we don't sell enough but we don't sell enough because we don't advertise.


I have no clue if Ricoh is letting Pentax run the ads and marketing that they have always run and or how they sell to camera stores but you would think that, even in these short few years, Ricoh would be putting a lot more into ads and marketing to get the product into the stores so the money they spent to buy Pentax cameras isn't seen as a loss and either sell it or kill it altogether.
04-19-2016, 08:21 PM   #202
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The cost of a dedicated K-1 information e-mail to all Pentax/Ricoh customers already seems out of reach for RI, whilst they do it on a regular basis for other products...

My question is : do RI really want to sell K-1 ?
Does this question deserve a dedicated thread ?!
04-20-2016, 03:11 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigdavephoto Quote
... Here in central Indiana, we basically have two camera stores, Roberts Camera in Indianapolis and Jacks Camera in Muncie Indiana. Both a well stocked camera stores but the only way to get anything Pentax is in the used department. It's been awhile since I have been to Roberts so I don't know about the sales people there but after talking to one of the sales people at Jacks, Pentax needs to do something. He basically said that he thinks Pentax will be gone in a few years. This conversation took place shortly after Ricoh bought Pentax.

...
There is a nice camera store in Overland Park, KS. I bought my legs there; they ordered the model I wanted for a brand they stock. I asked if they could get Pentax lenses and would have bought one from them. They weren't able to get any from their supplier...

I did pick through their used Pentax stuff.

04-20-2016, 05:41 AM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
The cost of a dedicated K-1 information e-mail to all Pentax/Ricoh customers already seems out of reach for RI, whilst they do it on a regular basis for other products...

My question is : do RI really want to sell K-1 ?
Does this question deserve a dedicated thread ?!


I got a dedicated email when the K-1 was introduced. The cost of that email was next to nothing other then the cost of making it and the monthly fee for the email and internet connection. The question remains, why is Ricoh-Pentax not spamming Facebook, Instagram and other sites to get the word out.
04-20-2016, 05:43 AM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigdavephoto Quote
I got a dedicated email when the K-1 was introduced. The cost of that email was next to nothing other then the cost of making it and the monthly fee for the email and internet connection. The question remains, why is Ricoh-Pentax not spamming Facebook, Instagram and other sites to get the word out.
The product is aimed (realistically) at existing Pentax owners. Have a look at the K-1 website.

04-20-2016, 06:02 AM   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I have not seen much in the way of Olympus or Panasonic or Fuji. I have seen large displays for Sony and the Nikon 1 system.
My nearest Best Buy store stocks large sensor and ILC cameras from all three of those brands. Here's what they currently have in stock right now:

Fuji
X100T - black
X100T - silver
X70 - black
X70 - silver
X-T1 w/18-55mm
X-T10 w/16-50mm

Olympus
OM-D E-M10 w/14-42mm

Panasonic
ZS100
FZ1000
LX100
G7 w/14-42mm
GH4 body only


And that's just my closest store. There are probably at least four or five Best Buy stores within an hour drive, and stock usually varies from store to store. And they've had Samsung ILC cameras in stock and on display for the last few years, but apparently no more.

Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 04-20-2016 at 08:04 AM.
04-20-2016, 06:05 AM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The product is aimed (realistically) at existing Pentax owners. Have a look at the K-1 website.
They have more or less said that, more than once, but there'll be a spread of sales beyond that group, which they could encourage, but so far only some of the less commercially-impeded photography websites seem to have done that for them.

I've a friend who's big in film (all formats; likes old Zeiss cameras), who tells me the K-1 is the only digital camera he's actually been excited about, and I doubt he's the only one. What that's telling me is that the K-1 is doing what Pentaxes have always done - appealing to photographers.

We'll see soon enough, but I get the feeling that a little more promotion in the right spots might just push the K-1 a tad further than Ricoh expects.
04-20-2016, 06:27 AM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
.

We'll see soon enough, but I get the feeling that a little more promotion in the right spots might just push the K-1 a tad further than Ricoh expects.
A lovely thought, Rob, but I'm a bit bearish about that. ☺

The DSLR market is sliding even further, and not many people swap brands when they've amassed a lens collection.



04-20-2016, 07:41 AM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
The cost of a dedicated K-1 information e-mail to all Pentax/Ricoh customers already seems out of reach for RI, whilst they do it on a regular basis for other products...
Actually I have received several emails from Ricoh announcing the K-1 and the K-1 'special site'. No idea how they got my email exactly.

One reason many companies require a customer to 'activate' their warranty is to collect email addresses for future marketing efforts. Ricoh does not require this activation anymore which seems a wasted opportunity.

---------- Post added 04-20-16 at 07:42 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
My nearest Best Buy store stocks large sensor and ILC cameras from all three of those brands. Here's what they currently have in stock right now:
Lucky you, I guess our BB is a smaller format. The camera section keeps shrinking and the phone section keeps growing.
04-20-2016, 07:49 AM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Lucky you, I guess our BB is a smaller format. The camera section keeps shrinking and the phone section keeps growing.
It is nice having a store 5 minutes away where I can handle and play with all kinds of cameras without having to get a pushy sales-person involved. What's really crazy is how many different kinds of Sony cameras they stock. Here's the list of mirrorless Sony models my store has in stock right now, all with a 1" or larger sensor:
RX10
RX10 II
RX100
RX100 II
RX100 III
RX100 IV

a5000 w/16-50mm - black
a5000 w/16-50mm - silver
a5000 w/16-50mm - white
a5100 w/16-50mm - black
a5100 w/16-50mm - white
a6000 w/16-50mm - black
a6000 w/16-50mm - white
a6000 w/16-50mm & 55-210mm - black
a6300 w/16-50mm
Alpha a7 w/28-70mm
Alpha a7 II body only
Alpha a7 II w/28-70mm
Alpha a7R II body only
Alpha a7S II body only
I guess Sony knows how to do it right. They have all four generations of the RX100 in stock!
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