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03-07-2016, 04:57 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobell69 Quote
I don't watch talking heads who have never seen nor touched a product and are prepared to offer their expert opinion on the item.
It was just a couple camera guys talking about a newly released model.

03-07-2016, 06:19 PM - 1 Like   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
If it's 98 or 99% is there a difference? Film SLRs used to be around 92%.
I heard it was 105%


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03-07-2016, 07:43 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I heard it was 105%


Steve
Not 110%? Ricoh is a bunch of slackers.
03-07-2016, 09:03 PM   #49
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Ok, ok, you all can blame me for the way Jared Polin kind of went off on a rant. The day he asked for the flying solo questions that week, I called him out for being a Nikon and Canon fan boy. So yes, it is my fault, but, if you watched all the way through, both Jared and Stephen agreed that when Borrow lenses gets some in for rental, they would rent one and try it out and review it.


I think Stephen was impressed by the specs except for the video part.


I have been following Jared and his RAW Talk for the last six months or so and I like the way he does things most of the time. Yes he can be arrogant, pain in the rear and Todd is over the top, a lot. Stephen just keeps things together but the photos of his I have seen are good. Plain and simple. He also does good product reviews too.


P.S.
Jared did tell me directly in a reply on FB that he is not on Pentax's press release list so he had not seen at first what the specs were so I sent him the link from Pentax forums that had the specs.

04-01-2016, 02:01 PM - 1 Like   #50
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You guys are getting mad about what they say but you have to realize that for most of the photography world there, this is like the worlds smallest car brand announcing that they are releasing a four wheel drive car. Pentax is roughly 6 years late to the game an while the K1 is nice (the astrophotography stuff is kind of cool) but it's not quite as ground breaking and as pentax thinks. For example, take the illumination. The D4s did it first except it was lot more practical. Having to use your screen as a flashlight in the dark sounds a little needlessly complicated. With the D4s, the buttons just light up, allowing you to do what you need to do in a simple straightforward way. Pentax is innovating in areas that dont necessarily need innovation. The AA filter is cool i might add.

The K1 kind of strikes me as a little peacock esque. It has lots of colorful feathers and tries to attract as much attention as possible but in the end, it goes home with only a few percent of the market share. For example, the screen tilting looks needlessly complicated. Why? The GH4 did it perfectly. It doesn't even look good. It seems pentax is a little too desperate to stand out. I would almost expect the lcd monitor on top to have windshield wipers. In

No amount of AA simulation is going to change the fact that when people turn this bad boy on, they are going to be confronted with something that doesn't look up to part in 2016. Pentax doesn't seem to understand that the camera market isn't just about specs anymore and if you want to grow your market share, its not just how many megapixels or how high the iso goes up.

I mean, and this is if the boxy looks dont put people off. Cameras aren't just tools like a screwdriver. They are part of our lives, they are things we identify with. I think there is a reason why "3 people" use pentax. Jared Polin wouldn't say that if they had half the market share the other big players do. You may say pentax is a niche market and they are content to be like that and I am gonna call BS on that. Any business besides to grow. Do you think if pentax could bring over 50 sony users adopt the k mount than it wouldn't?

True innovation comes from looking at problems photographers face. Make the camera easier to use, help it do peoples jobs easier and people will buy into it. Things used to be all about the technology. I remember when I used to shoot pentax in college and i would hesitate to push it past iso 400 in low is light. Now even micro 4/3s does gives you the freedom to shoot almost under any lighting conditions. I am switching to APS c mirrorless not because it's all about low light (I shot at night at only iso 320 the other weekend) but because it makes my life easier. The artist will always seek out the paintbrush that weighs them down the least.
04-01-2016, 02:36 PM   #51
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Yes, I am going to say Pentax will not change itself to gather parochial market share. Pentax will slowly change the market to gather new adherents to their philosophy.
04-01-2016, 02:39 PM   #52
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Well, if you don't find it interesting, you don't have to downgrade into product bashing. If it's not the right product for you, it might be for someone else.

You've got many things wrong:
- a 3rd SLR brand entering the FF DSLR market is a significant event. Note that I'm not saying any nonsense about being "groundbreaking" or other such buzzwords. It means choice, and it's all for the better that the Pentax choice is different.
- Pentax tried illuminated buttons and decided to go with the current solution... though I can't say why. But in the worst case, the D4s would "win" for the back buttons, but "lose" for the mount and card slots. Yep, I tried changing lenses in dark.
- the GH4-like articulated LCD mechanism is not the best for everyone, and in every situation. I still have to try the K-1 mechanism myself, but it definitely looks faster to operate. So no, the GH4 didn't do it "perfectly", Pentax actually has a point and they do stand out, but in a most positive way.
- the low market share situation was not generated by the still-not-on-the-market K-1, thus it cannot be used as an argument against the camera. Accepting BS numbers (i.e. "3 people") shows that you're unwilling to take a reasonable stance, by the way.
- trying to get emotional while bashing the camera we're impatiently waiting for is a big FAIL, too.

But the worst of them, is that your problem with Pentax is that they're innovating outside of what you're imagining they should do. Oh, no, the LCD mechanism is different, that means it must be bad.
04-01-2016, 02:55 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
You guys are getting mad about what they say but you have to realize that for most of the photography world there, this is like the worlds smallest car brand announcing that they are releasing a four wheel drive car. Pentax is roughly 6 years late to the game an while the K1 is nice (the astrophotography stuff is kind of cool) but it's not quite as ground breaking and as pentax thinks. For example, take the illumination. The D4s did it first except it was lot more practical. Having to use your screen as a flashlight in the dark sounds a little needlessly complicated. With the D4s, the buttons just light up, allowing you to do what you need to do in a simple straightforward way. Pentax is innovating in areas that dont necessarily need innovation. The AA filter is cool i might add.

The K1 kind of strikes me as a little peacock esque. It has lots of colorful feathers and tries to attract as much attention as possible but in the end, it goes home with only a few percent of the market share. For example, the screen tilting looks needlessly complicated. Why? The GH4 did it perfectly. It doesn't even look good. It seems pentax is a little too desperate to stand out. I would almost expect the lcd monitor on top to have windshield wipers. In

No amount of AA simulation is going to change the fact that when people turn this bad boy on, they are going to be confronted with something that doesn't look up to part in 2016. Pentax doesn't seem to understand that the camera market isn't just about specs anymore and if you want to grow your market share, its not just how many megapixels or how high the iso goes up.

I mean, and this is if the boxy looks dont put people off. Cameras aren't just tools like a screwdriver. They are part of our lives, they are things we identify with. I think there is a reason why "3 people" use pentax. Jared Polin wouldn't say that if they had half the market share the other big players do. You may say pentax is a niche market and they are content to be like that and I am gonna call BS on that. Any business besides to grow. Do you think if pentax could bring over 50 sony users adopt the k mount than it wouldn't?

True innovation comes from looking at problems photographers face. Make the camera easier to use, help it do peoples jobs easier and people will buy into it. Things used to be all about the technology. I remember when I used to shoot pentax in college and i would hesitate to push it past iso 400 in low is light. Now even micro 4/3s does gives you the freedom to shoot almost under any lighting conditions. I am switching to APS c mirrorless not because it's all about low light (I shot at night at only iso 320 the other weekend) but because it makes my life easier. The artist will always seek out the paintbrush that weighs them down the least.
Google "Lloyd Chambers Pentax K-1"

04-01-2016, 04:16 PM   #54
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^Interesting stuff, Hopeless Tiger.

Still, I dont feel like ignoring market trends such as you know the whole mirrorless thing is really going to aid pentax in convincing people to come over. Small a light is the name of the game right now and pentax is giving us us something that is a good 100 grams heavier than the average dslr. I just dont know if pentax has positioned themselves ideally for market growth.

A 3rd SLR brand introducing a full frame system would be a big deal if it weren't 6 years late. By now, there has been a huge shift toward mirrorless systems.


Fact of the matter is that, even though it may be innovative, its massively overthought as evidenced by the tilt screen mechanism. The GH4s screen has a wider range of motion and having all those metal ball bearings visible looks like an unfinished product and is likely to turn new shooters away.

Innovation is all fine and good, but they need to get the basics first. Pentax is trying to build a solar powered smart house that cleans your car without even having a door that stays locked. I dont know why they would even bother including video at all with the very modest 1080 30 fps, which sort of bring me to another market trend. Sony showed us that a camera can give you good stills and video. Pentax still doesn't seem like it cares about video and this is why they dont seem to have too much luck. Canonikon's entry level cameras do video much better than pentax's flagship cameras.

The "nearly" 100% viewfinder is completely out of place on a professional piece of gear. I would never invest in a camera system where little things started to creep in through the viewfinder like walking trees in lord of the rings or something.

I like pentax. It was the camera that i learned photography on. I think if Pentax covered their bases and focused on delivering competitive af and a better video feature set they would really have a very compelling package that might start to gain more market share.

That's all! Carry on!

Last edited by neostyles; 04-01-2016 at 04:22 PM.
04-01-2016, 04:43 PM   #55
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6 years late, says who? The DSLRs still vastly outsell MILCs, and Ricoh Imaging's decision to serve their Pentaxian user base is the correct one. Deal with that.

You're talking nonsense about the LCD mechanism. It doesn't look at all unfinished; and it's solid. Really solid. Also, as I said, the GH4 is more cumbersome to use - if all you want is to tilt the LCD a bit upwards (or in any other direction than left), you're forced to:
- flip it open
- twist it to the desired angle
- shoot
- twist it back
- flip it closed
And Pentax is on something with the alignment with the lens stuff... for me the off-axis position of a flip&twist LCD feels unnatural. It might work for video, but stills? Nope.

Fortunately, Ricoh Imaging didn't seek approval from the mirrorless crowd. Such unimaginative folks, who thinks that only one type of camera should exist, and with only "standard" features... the K-1 is too innovative for them!

Last but not least, you won't fool anyone by saying that you like Pentax. Your allegiance is clear. Your intentions can be seen in your posts.
04-01-2016, 05:11 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
^Interesting stuff, Hopeless Tiger.

Still, I dont feel like ignoring market trends such as you know the whole mirrorless thing is really going to aid pentax in convincing people to come over. Small a light is the name of the game right now and pentax is giving us us something that is a good 100 grams heavier than the average dslr. I just dont know if pentax has positioned themselves ideally for market growth.

A 3rd SLR brand introducing a full frame system would be a big deal if it weren't 6 years late. By now, there has been a huge shift toward mirrorless systems.


Fact of the matter is that, even though it may be innovative, its massively overthought as evidenced by the tilt screen mechanism. The GH4s screen has a wider range of motion and having all those metal ball bearings visible looks like an unfinished product and is likely to turn new shooters away.

Innovation is all fine and good, but they need to get the basics first. Pentax is trying to build a solar powered smart house that cleans your car without even having a door that stays locked. I dont know why they would even bother including video at all with the very modest 1080 30 fps, which sort of bring me to another market trend. Sony showed us that a camera can give you good stills and video. Pentax still doesn't seem like it cares about video and this is why they dont seem to have too much luck. Canonikon's entry level cameras do video much better than pentax's flagship cameras.

The "nearly" 100% viewfinder is completely out of place on a professional piece of gear. I would never invest in a camera system where little things started to creep in through the viewfinder like walking trees in lord of the rings or something.

I like pentax. It was the camera that i learned photography on. I think if Pentax covered their bases and focused on delivering competitive af and a better video feature set they would really have a very compelling package that might start to gain more market share.

That's all! Carry on!
I have those mirrorless things of which you speak. A6000 and A7r with the expensive lenses, the ones with blue badges.

These "lens attachment devices" killed, stone dead, my passion for the pasttime of togging for pleasure. I dread the sight of the things. Even the bag they're contained in. I only shoot the things when absolutely necessary and pray one day they will be consumed no, cleansed, by fire.

My favourite camera, the one I got on best with and hence achieved the best results was not the K-3 but the K5IIs. I love that camera and still have it to this day. AA-filterless 16mp on crop is just right and the weight and handling perfect.

I agree the K-1 needs far better video and I'm waiting on reports of AF performance too. I'd also like in camera focus stacking in RAW. But we can't have it all I guess.

My experience with Sony mirrorless has not been a pleasant one. EVF is good mind, but Sony really don't make a camera I want to pick up and take shooting. At best the things leave me cold.

Last edited by HopelessTogger; 04-01-2016 at 05:16 PM.
04-01-2016, 05:28 PM - 1 Like   #57
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Whoops sorry, the first full frame DSLR was actually the contax N which was released in 2002, 15 years ago. But arguably there wasn't the greatest lineup of full frame lenses so lets go with the original Canon 5D, which was released a whopping 11 years ago.

That's like spending 80% of your money on booze and saying that you are serving yourself because you dont have any immediate expenses. This is such poor strategy. If pentax ever hopes to grow and become more than a niche brand they need to think about the future. In a few years, mirrorless af will have probably outclassed or atleast gotten up there on equal grounds with dslr autofocus. We are already starting to see drops in dslr sales in certain countries.

I am a designer, sir. And i can tell you that the screen tilt mechanism won't win any awards. It looks awkward at best, regardless of how functionally dreamlike it may be. You have all these metal rods poking out at different angles. It looks decidedly outdated, like a throwback to an era of long past, like the times of flash gordon. It looks like a transformer or something. Pentax isn't exactly the greatest when it comes to aesthetics. I mean, they have some of the most peculiar looking cameras out there and while this is by no means the K-01 which looks like it was designed to be held by a giant lego man. What makes it look unfinished is how you have the metal exposed against the black of the rest of the camera. Those metal rods are going to freeze to your hands if you take the camera out in that -30 degree weather it's advertised to be good at, not to mention the possibility of rust. The problem is all the bits that protrude so much which are magnets for dust. It just doesn't look as well designed as other tilt screens.

I have no allegiance. I shot pentax, starting in 2012 for about 2 years, then nikon for another 2, and now I'm looking at switching to samsung or sony. E mount or A mount? Im still having a hard time deciding. I shot with 3 pentax cameras, the oddly named istds, the K10, and finally the K20. I like the colors pentax produces. I like how my first pentax surved san francisco rain one day shooting pictures for class.

I applaud pentax for it's innovation and the pixel shift is pretty cool to be honest, but the fact is that it still has work to do in the "standard" features. Their attempts at wireless connectivity haven't exactly been class leading dude. In a pro level body as this, every thing must be up to pro standards. If they are going to include a movie mode, it needs to be every bit as good as the stills. Mirrorless proved this could be done.

The in body stabilization is nice though as well, but most of the sony line up has this. I think it's some of the "standard" problems that photographers care the most about such as not being able to see their screens in daytime, hence one one the reasons why I'm leaving nikon for the world of mirrorless.

Last edited by neostyles; 04-01-2016 at 05:44 PM.
04-01-2016, 05:42 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Whoops sorry, the first full frame DSLR was actually the contax N which was released in 2002, 15 years ago. But arguably there wasn't the greatest lineup of full frame lenses so lets go with the original Canon 5D, which was released a whopping 11 years ago.

That's like spending 80% of your money on booze and saying that you are serving yourself because you dont have any immediate expenses. This is such poor strategy. If pentax ever hopes to grow and become more than a niche brand they need to think about the future. In a few years, mirrorless af will have probably outclassed or atleast gotten up there on equal grounds with dslr autofocus. We are already starting to see drops in dslr sales in certain countries.

I am a designer, sir. And i can tell you that the screen tilt mechanism won't win any awards. It looks awkward at best, regardless of how functionally dreamlike it may be. You have all these metal rods poking out at different angles. It looks decidedly outdated, like a throwback to an era of long past, like the times of flash gordon. It looks like a transformer or something. Pentax isn't exactly the greatest when it comes to aesthetics. I mean, they have some of the most peculiar looking cameras out there and while this is by no means the K-01 which looks like it was designed to be held by a giant lego man.

I have no allegiance. I shot pentax, starting in 2012 for about 2 years, then nikon for another 2, and now I'm looking at switching to samsung or sony. E mount or A mount? Im still having a hard time deciding. I shot with 3 pentax cameras, the oddly named istds, the K10, and finally the K20. I like the colors pentax produces. I like how my first pentax surved san francisco rain one day shooting pictures for class.

I applaud pentax for it's innovation and the pixel shift is pretty cool to be honest, but the fact is that it still has work to do in the "standard" features. Their attempts at wireless connectivity haven't exactly been class leading dude. In a pro level body as this, every thing must be up to pro standards. If they are going to include a movie mode, it needs to be every bit as good as the stills. Mirrorless proved this could be done.
The screen tilt thing looks a bit odd, I agree. But perhaps it will be okay in practice. Never used wireless before.

For me, it all comes down to what gives me pleasure to shoot and so far only Pentax cameras have done that.

If I really want proper 4K video I think a dedicated camcorder is still best. A7R2 overheats and the quality of the 4K is not terrific reading reviews.

The A7r has really put me off mirrorless. There's next to nothing good about this device as a camera. Perhaps it can make toast?
04-01-2016, 05:47 PM - 1 Like   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
now I'm looking at switching to samsung or sony. E mount or A mount? Im still having a hard time deciding.
Since you are moving on, or have moved on, I'm curious why you hang out here bashing Pentax? If you don't like what they have done, no problem. If you have something to contribute, no problem. But hanging out here insulting everyone's intelligence? Why is that?
04-01-2016, 05:48 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Maybe he's pissed Ricoh won't send out a review unit to everyone with a podcast.
I went to the link - "This week's episode is brought to you by HOYA."

Misery loves company?
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