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04-01-2016, 08:05 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
Whoops sorry, the first full frame DSLR was actually the contax N which was released in 2002, 15 years ago. But arguably there wasn't the greatest lineup of full frame lenses so lets go with the original Canon 5D, which was released a whopping 11 years ago.

That's like spending 80% of your money on booze and saying that you are serving yourself because you dont have any immediate expenses. This is such poor strategy. If pentax ever hopes to grow and become more than a niche brand they need to think about the future. In a few years, mirrorless af will have probably outclassed or atleast gotten up there on equal grounds with dslr autofocus. We are already starting to see drops in dslr sales in certain countries.

I am a designer, sir. And i can tell you that the screen tilt mechanism won't win any awards. It looks awkward at best, regardless of how functionally dreamlike it may be. You have all these metal rods poking out at different angles. It looks decidedly outdated, like a throwback to an era of long past, like the times of flash gordon. It looks like a transformer or something. Pentax isn't exactly the greatest when it comes to aesthetics. I mean, they have some of the most peculiar looking cameras out there and while this is by no means the K-01 which looks like it was designed to be held by a giant lego man. What makes it look unfinished is how you have the metal exposed against the black of the rest of the camera. Those metal rods are going to freeze to your hands if you take the camera out in that -30 degree weather it's advertised to be good at, not to mention the possibility of rust. The problem is all the bits that protrude so much which are magnets for dust. It just doesn't look as well designed as other tilt screens.

I have no allegiance. I shot pentax, starting in 2012 for about 2 years, then nikon for another 2, and now I'm looking at switching to samsung or sony. E mount or A mount? Im still having a hard time deciding. I shot with 3 pentax cameras, the oddly named istds, the K10, and finally the K20. I like the colors pentax produces. I like how my first pentax surved san francisco rain one day shooting pictures for class.

I applaud pentax for it's innovation and the pixel shift is pretty cool to be honest, but the fact is that it still has work to do in the "standard" features. Their attempts at wireless connectivity haven't exactly been class leading dude. In a pro level body as this, every thing must be up to pro standards. If they are going to include a movie mode, it needs to be every bit as good as the stills. Mirrorless proved this could be done.

The in body stabilization is nice though as well, but most of the sony line up has this. I think it's some of the "standard" problems that photographers care the most about such as not being able to see their screens in daytime, hence one one the reasons why I'm leaving nikon for the world of mirrorless.
Wow !!

04-01-2016, 08:08 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Since you are moving on, or have moved on, I'm curious why you hang out here bashing Pentax? If you don't like what they have done, no problem. If you have something to contribute, no problem. But hanging out here insulting everyone's intelligence? Why is that?
To me at least, it doesn't come across as bashing. It seems like he would be happy to see Pentax thrive, but he's not convinced by some of their decisions. I guess I kind of feel the same way.

At first his posts look long and rambling, but they were actually good reads, and pretty funny at times. Like when he said the K-01 looked like it was designed to be held by a giant Lego man. I guess his candor isn't appreciated by everybody, but I think he is simply sharing constructive criticism.


QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You've got many things wrong:
- a 3rd SLR brand entering the FF DSLR market is a significant event.
Wouldn't Pentax actually be the 4th FF DSLR brand? Sony still sells the a99. Or do the SLT camera's not count? They're certainly not mirrorless.

Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 04-01-2016 at 08:14 PM.
04-01-2016, 08:17 PM - 1 Like   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
To me at least, it doesn't come across as bashing. It seems like he would be happy to see Pentax thrive, but he's not convinced by some of their decisions. I guess I kind of feel the same way.
Fair enough, and perhaps my post was a little harsh but I am genuinely curious why people who have already bought other systems insist on posting here and telling us why? So I was asking a serious question. Why? If I had moved on from Pentax and was trying to make up my mind on another brand I would be haunting other forums trying to figure out what I was going to buy, not wasting my time telling people who are happy with a brand why they should not be.
04-01-2016, 08:30 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
So I was asking a serious question. Why? If I had moved on from Pentax and was trying to make up my mind on another brand I would be haunting other forums trying to figure out what I was going to buy, not wasting my time telling people who are happy with a brand why they should not be.
Probably wanted to get it off his chest, and get some feedback on his thoughts.

04-01-2016, 08:49 PM   #65
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I guess a really "style driven" photog, would have prefered Hassy's Lunar relooked creatures to any other mirrorless...
Take it or not.

Last edited by Zygonyx; 04-02-2016 at 01:02 AM.
04-02-2016, 01:14 AM - 1 Like   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
To me at least, it doesn't come across as bashing. It seems like he would be happy to see Pentax thrive, but he's not convinced by some of their decisions. I guess I kind of feel the same way.
He would be happy to see Pentax thrive, as long as:
- they stop making DSLRs, going all-MILC instead
- admit that catering to our needs is a terrible mistake
- their only innovation would be limited to copying GH4 and other "approved" technologies, nothing too daring please!

QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
Wouldn't Pentax actually be the 4th FF DSLR brand? Sony still sells the a99. Or do the SLT camera's not count? They're certainly not mirrorless.
They're certainly not DSLRs. They can't be SLRs if they don't have the optical reflex viewfinder.

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
I am a designer, sir. And i can tell you that the screen tilt mechanism won't win any awards.
I'm not aware of the GH4's flip&twist winning any awards. Actually, who gives awards for "the articulated LCD mechanism of the year"?
I don't care what you are, since you cannot visualize how it's used. Tip #1: you don't touch these rods; and in such low temperatures, you wear gloves (which means the camera interface should be usable with gloves). You don't know anything about metals either. Tip #2: there are widely-used alloys that don't rust. And you don't know anything about durability either. Tip #3: if it gets really dirty, just wash it.
Besides, your "concerns" will be made irrelevant the moment the store clerk will wiggle the K-1 with a quite hefty lens attached, by the back LCD.

IMHO the back LCD was a stroke of genius: distinctive, functional, reliable.

P.S. The K-01 was made to look that way by one of you designers. And it won design awards - Product Design winner at the Red Dot in 2012 and Gold at the German Design Awards in 2013.

Last edited by Kunzite; 04-02-2016 at 01:28 AM.
04-02-2016, 02:09 AM   #67
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AND the K-01 was designed by an Aussie,so remember that being upside down at the bottom of the earth,we are entitled to design things RS about!��
04-02-2016, 05:16 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
They're certainly not DSLRs. They can't be SLRs if they don't have the optical reflex viewfinder.
Of course they don't meet the strict technical definition that would allow them to have the honor of using the initials "S", "L", and "R" in that order, but in real worlds terms it's a fairly useless distinction as the cameras are direct competitors to SLRs. My point is that we can't say that the K-1 is the first camera to challenge Canon and Nikon DSLR's head-on, when Sony's already been doing it for years. But I guess if somebody really wants to split hairs in order to say that Pentax is the first challenger, then they are certainly free to split those hairs.

04-02-2016, 05:51 AM   #69
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Edgar, I never said the K-1 is the first FF DSLR to challenge Canon and Nikon. That would be Sony A900 (followed by the A850). But that was in the past, and now there are 3 brands of small format DSLRs; and as soon as the K-1 starts shipping, all 3 brands will have "FF" aka 35mm-format DSLRs on the market.

I'm not splitting hairs here; I'm simply using the correct definition of a single lens reflex camera. The optical viewfinder system is the defining characteristic of a SLR. It's not a mere detail.
And I'm under no obligation to change the accepted definition of a SLR camera, just to include Sony.

P.S. What I wrote was clear enough to be properly understood, yet you ignored it and added some stuff of your own. Please don't do that.
04-02-2016, 10:57 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
... I would almost expect the lcd monitor on top to have windshield wipers. ...
I suppose it could have. It is more simple to store a bit of towel in the second SD card slot.

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
... No amount of AA simulation is going to change the fact that when people turn this bad boy on, they are going to be confronted with something that doesn't look up to part in 2016. ...
Is this about how the camera looks or stuff inside the camera is dated ?

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
... I mean, and this is if the boxy looks dont put people off. ...
I like some things to be boxy so I guess it is a matter of preference.

---------- Post added 04-02-16 at 01:16 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
... I am a designer, sir. And i can tell you that the screen tilt mechanism won't win any awards. It looks awkward at best, regardless of how functionally dreamlike it may be. You have all these metal rods poking out at different angles. It looks decidedly outdated, like a throwback to an era of long past, like the times of flash gordon. It looks like a transformer or something. Pentax isn't exactly the greatest when it comes to aesthetics. I mean, they have some of the most peculiar looking cameras out there and while this is by no means the K-01 which looks like it was designed to be held by a giant lego man. What makes it look unfinished is how you have the metal exposed against the black of the rest of the camera. Those metal rods are going to freeze to your hands if you take the camera out in that -30 degree weather it's advertised to be good at, not to mention the possibility of rust. The problem is all the bits that protrude so much which are magnets for dust. It just doesn't look as well designed as other tilt screens.

...
'neostyles' is a neat name for a designer.
I think black chrome would have looked better than silver rods.
They could go Manfrotto and offer kits with red, blue, or orange legs.

I think it will be more convenient to adjust the orientation of the screen by gripping the plastic frame rather than futzing with the metal rods.

There may be a lot of work and experimentation required to get some things to rust, but I suppose it is always possible to have some form of oxidation on some kind of thing. You just need to hunt up the necessary environmental conditions.

Nooks and crannies may not actually attract dust as a magnet attracts things that might rust. But, surely, lint and who knows what cruft can get up in them (depends on where/how you store your lint magnets). I own several things that grow lint balls like a belly button. I like digging out the fuzzy bunnies. I have never had a thing stop working because the lint became too thick. Lint is fairly compressible and, once the cranny has reached peak lint, additional lint just moves on down the road.

Last edited by Tan68; 04-02-2016 at 11:22 AM.
04-03-2016, 02:48 AM - 1 Like   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
6 years late, says who? The DSLRs still vastly outsell MILCs, and Ricoh Imaging's decision to serve their Pentaxian user base is the correct one. Deal with that.

You're talking nonsense about the LCD mechanism. It doesn't look at all unfinished; and it's solid. Really solid. Also, as I said, the GH4 is more cumbersome to use - if all you want is to tilt the LCD a bit upwards (or in any other direction than left), you're forced to:
- flip it open
- twist it to the desired angle
- shoot
- twist it back
- flip it closed
And Pentax is on something with the alignment with the lens stuff... for me the off-axis position of a flip&twist LCD feels unnatural. It might work for video, but stills? Nope.

Fortunately, Ricoh Imaging didn't seek approval from the mirrorless crowd. Such unimaginative folks, who thinks that only one type of camera should exist, and with only "standard" features... the K-1 is too innovative for them!

Last but not least, you won't fool anyone by saying that you like Pentax. Your allegiance is clear. Your intentions can be seen in your posts.
Spot on. I've said it before this forum like many others are infested with fanboys from other manufacturers. Anyway.....
The truth Is the average troll with a camera, the likes of which spend far too much time spouting hot air on forums have no idea what innovation is. Why would any photographer want all cameras to be the same I.e mirrorless? Why would you not embrace choice? Obviously Pentax / Ricoh know the K-1 will appeal to many including myself. I have owned hi end Canon and Nikon systems and they were no nearer perfection than Pentax don't be fooled. Petty conversations about tilting screens is really saddening and stupid and proof that some people cannot deal with change let alone innovation. I've been lucky enough to play extensively with pre production K-1s and I like what it promises. I have my brand new FA 43 limited sat waiting patiently for its arrival. My reasons for purchase were based on image quality coming of the lenses using the current crop cameras. But I realise that some will blame their inability to capture great images will contribute it to the way the lcd swivels.

---------- Post added 04-03-16 at 03:06 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
^Interesting stuff, Hopeless Tiger.

Still, I dont feel like ignoring market trends such as you know the whole mirrorless thing is really going to aid pentax in convincing people to come over. Small a light is the name of the game right now and pentax is giving us us something that is a good 100 grams heavier than the average dslr. I just dont know if pentax has positioned themselves ideally for market growth.

A 3rd SLR brand introducing a full frame system would be a big deal if it weren't 6 years late. By now, there has been a huge shift toward mirrorless systems.



Fact of the matter is that, even though it may be innovative, its massively overthought as evidenced by the tilt screen mechanism. The GH4s screen has a wider range of motion and having all those metal ball bearings visible looks like an unfinished product and is likely to turn new shooters away.

Innovation is all fine and good, but they need to get the basics first. Pentax is trying to build a solar powered smart house that cleans your car without even having a door that stays locked. I dont know why they would even bother including video at all with the very modest 1080 30 fps, which sort of bring me to another market trend. Sony showed us that a camera can give you good stills and video. Pentax still doesn't seem like it cares about video and this is why they dont seem to have too much luck. Canonikon's entry level cameras do video much better than pentax's flagship cameras.

The "nearly" 100% viewfinder is completely out of place on a professional piece of gear. I would never invest in a camera system where little things started to creep in through the viewfinder like walking trees in lord of the rings or something.

I like pentax. It was the camera that i learned photography on. I think if Pentax covered their bases and focused on delivering competitive af and a better video feature set they would really have a very compelling package that might start to gain more market share.

That's all! Carry on!
I have owned Sony mirrorless and as a photographer who never shoots video I'd rather not have a camera that shoots "good video" and "good stills" but rather one with stills that are outstanding. Of course this is all personal choice, you need to understand things like weight are not an issue for some, infact some are prepared to make sacrifices in exchange great image quality, great ergonomics, great price and boxy rugged looks, which I love btw.
04-03-2016, 04:41 AM   #72
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My question is why is switching from Nikon?
He left Pentax 4 years ago to go to Nikon, and 2 years later Nikon is out of date!!
04-03-2016, 04:57 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
My question is why is switching from Nikon?
He left Pentax 4 years ago to go to Nikon, and 2 years later Nikon is out of date!!
What he's really saying is he's dumping DSLR.

In fairness, he does make some good points.
04-03-2016, 07:44 AM   #74
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Nope, he didn't manage to make a single valid point. It's all anti-Pentax kettle-logic rhetoric (I won't say the t word...).
Listen carefully to what Ricoh Imaging has to say, there's some good stuff. Getting back to the LCD "moon lander" mechanism (naming by Imaging Resource's Dave Etchells) - do you remember when people said they don't want an articulated LCD mechanism because it's not rugged/solid enough? Do you think Ricoh Imaging insisting on a solution which can (apparently) hold 20kgs is a coincidence?
So, listen carefully to what Ricoh Imaging has to say, because they're listening to us.

QuoteOriginally posted by creative69 Quote
Spot on. I've said it before this forum like many others are infested with fanboys from other manufacturers.
They're easy to spot, usually - with those "I love Pentax, but they should be [Sony | Fujifilm | Olympus | etc.] instead of being Pentax" posts.
04-03-2016, 08:54 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
... (I won't say the t word...). ...
'twaddle' ?
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