Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-09-2016, 08:09 AM - 1 Like   #106
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,501
@neostyles RE: post and multiple replies -

K-1 will be a different combination of features and technologies than offered on similarly priced FF digital cameras. It is neither better nor worse than other cameras. It is a traditionally-Pentax good value at it's price, oriented to producing wonderful still image files using the best proven, current technology. The K-1 combination of features and price perfectly fit what I want.

If the K-1 combination of features and price doesn't perfectly fit what you want, OK. Use what you want.

The stuff you keep posting about means nothing to me. I don't want it, it doesn't fit my needs and I wouldn't pay what it costs.


Last edited by monochrome; 04-09-2016 at 11:55 AM.
04-09-2016, 08:14 AM   #107
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,420
Why do people care what the "Fro" says about the K-1? He has never had his hands on one. He has a very small group of subscribers. He has done a few good interviews with some very talented people, but he is really a pretty average photographer himself.
04-09-2016, 10:17 AM   #108
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,292
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Why do people care what the "Fro" says about the K-1?
I don't think anyone really cares. At least not since page 2 or so, (I lost track). The thread seems to have devolved into the usual, posts made with sly but inflammatory remarks designed to get a reaction from others. A few of the comments actually made me want to jump in and refute things, but I'm not going to bother. I can appreciate skill even when it is used in a negative way, but I'm not going react. Best way to hurt a mythical Scandinavian creature is the patented Boriscletoİ button.
04-09-2016, 10:53 AM   #109
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,573
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I don't think anyone really cares. At least not since page 2 or so, (I lost track). The thread seems to have devolved into the usual, posts made with sly but inflammatory remarks designed to get a reaction from others.
I couldn't agree more... the thread has served it's purpose and should probably fizzle out

04-09-2016, 11:06 AM   #110
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,234
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Since you are moving on, or have moved on, I'm curious why you hang out here bashing Pentax? If you don't like what they have done, no problem. If you have something to contribute, no problem. But hanging out here insulting everyone's intelligence? Why is that?
Its because he is a designer and an expert at something...


Steve
04-10-2016, 07:47 PM   #111
Veteran Member
neostyles's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 445
Fair enough, but I just think it's interesting all the mud that being thrown at the Fro. All the witty playground like, remarks along the lines of "oh yeah well only 3 people subscribe to you" make me smile. He has 500k subscribers. He is among the biggest photography channels on youtube. He isn't necessarily my most watched youtube channel and I admit I dont really rely on his advice a lot but it seems like people getting their jimmies a little rustled over what amounts to a very small remark, that is for all purposes has some truth to it.

I dont claim to be an expert on anything, but anyone who has a background in design will you know most likely not really be all that into that thing on the back. Pentax's real obstacle to mainstream recognition has never been it's marketing (I see pentax as in almost every camera magazine) but it's always been the "human" aspect. The look and feel has always not been perfect. Cameras are tools, but unlike in the film era where cameras were strapped to a donkey or slung across your back, design matters. Sleekly designed things win market share. Millions of people flock to the apple stores to buy the next iPhone even though there are other things out there with even better specs because of Apple's legendary design.


Now, granted, the K1 is every inch a pentax camera, but if they want to become more than a niche product (and putting out a medium format camera doesn't exactly leave a lot of room for doubt) then they need to focus more on just the bells and whistles.
04-10-2016, 08:33 PM   #112
Moderator
Site Supporter
MarkJerling's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,250
I've liked the look and feel of all my Pentax cameras. Mostly though, I like the fact hat they are built strong. So, as for the "thing on the back", if that thing really is as strong as it appears to be, then I'm all for it. I don't want a rotating swiveling screen that can be damaged easily. I hope that the electrical connection is good and robust too. Otherwise, I'd rather have a fixed screen.

I like the "form follows function" appearance of the K-1, much as I like the Nikon Df. I do not like the "bubble car" look of Canons. So, if the K-1 proves as easy to hold and good to use as my other cameras, I'd be very happy. I agree that design matters and I contend that the Pentax K-1 appears to be a good design. Of course, I've not had it in my hands yet, so I cannot form a definitive opinion. I have experienced a Sony a7r, and I did not like it one bit. So, I think "good design" means different things to different people. I am a Architectural and Industrial Designer and I know, as much as any designer does, that beauty sells (for instance) cars, but value sells cars too. I suspect it's much the same for cameras.
04-10-2016, 09:59 PM - 1 Like   #113
Moderator
Site Supporter
MarkJerling's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,250
While on the topics of iPhones: While they may sell well, they're not a particularly good design. I have seen several that, from a drop from moderate height, have had their screens cracked / shattered. They fail at the slightest whiff of moisture. And, they're overpriced. Yet, countless people buy them because they look good. The Apple laptops are beautifully made, but they do not offer good value in terms of computing power.

04-10-2016, 10:13 PM   #114
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: mid nth coast,nsw
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,432
Oranges have more juice than apples,the alternatives to Apple follow suit.
PS,Bledisloe is coming back to where it belongs.
04-11-2016, 12:16 AM   #115
Moderator
Site Supporter
MarkJerling's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,250
QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Oranges have more juice than apples,the alternatives to Apple follow suit.
PS,Bledisloe is coming back to where it belongs.
I must agree with the apples and oranges. But, we'll have to see about the Bledisloe Cup!
04-14-2016, 12:37 PM   #116
Veteran Member
neostyles's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 445
QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
While on the topics of iPhones: While they may sell well, they're not a particularly good design. I have seen several that, from a drop from moderate height, have had their screens cracked / shattered. They fail at the slightest whiff of moisture. And, they're overpriced. Yet, countless people buy them because they look good. The Apple laptops are beautifully made, but they do not offer good value in terms of computing power.
This place loves it's word games doesn't it? Design as in visuals, the user experience etc. Apple is second to none here and pentax could learn a thing from them. No I'm not saying their cameras should look like iPhones, but user experience is everything. Our cameras are letting us upload pictures directly to social media. It's not just enough that the camera lets you get the shot, although this is a huge part of it granted. The pentax cameras that I've used in the past while admitantly small and lacking the bulk of full frame, just didn't feel good in the hands. The grip on the K20 just didn't feel like it was designed to be ergonomic. Pentax's design hasn't been the best traditionally. Pentax is losing out because of the form follows function. It's not marketing. We live in a social media age. Sony cameras have blown up primarily to social media. Good things sell themselves. You could have the best tasting dish ever but if it looks like an alien from a low budget movie, no one is going to want to order it.

Im not Jonathan Ives (iPhone designer afaik) but I feel like I could have designed far better looking cameras for pentax. I know, bold statement, but Pentax has traditionally not been at the top of the design game. It's like they dont have any sense of direction or goal. I can't tell whether they are going for a retro look or they just weren't sure how to design it. Fujifilm does the retro thing beautifully and if this is the case, they could learn a thing from fuji. I did take a look at a few videos of the K1 at CP and the screen itlself does look like pretty nice.
https://youtu.be/XrN7xiHGg80?t=6m57s

Pentax has been trying to compete purely with specs and bells and whistle. The k3 as good as it seems just doesn't seem that unique. It doesn't seem like they went in thinking "how can we set this apart from every other full frame dslr on the market." That's one of the dangers of showing up the full frame party 5 years late (not to rip on them or anything.) I know, there is the pixel shift, which is honestly very cool, but it's limited to a certain kind of shooter. How is the K1 going to improve things for portrait shooters? What about connectivity? The "flucard" (which sounds like it might make you sick) wasn't exactly an example of cutting edge connectivity. They compromised the size of the top deck lcd in return for a third dial which I hope does something big. The smaller top deck lcd means that info such as white balance cannot be shown which makes it much less useful for pros. What about studio work? How is the K1 going to help the studio shooter?

Im not trying to rip on pentax, I just think these are some things which may help them. There is some truth to what Jared said, and while it may have ruffled some feathers i think it could help pentax. Greater market penetration means more 3rd party support for things like lenses and the like. It seems like they have some really cool things but then they get distracted and forget about the other things. I think the reason why pentax is still kind of rare to this day is that their cameras tend to not be the most well rounded packages (even though they may do some cool things) for example, video has been a huge weakness and instead of just of just focusing on stills, they opted to include a video mode which dates back to roughly 2010. The control illumination and all are cool but that doesn't change the fact that things like autofocus are still very important. The k1 only has 33 af points and a very small coverage at that. I don't think it's even 50% coverage. This is why mirrorless cameras came along. They give us what we have always wanted in our cameras, that nearly edge to edge af coverage. In some ways, pentax is ahead of it's time,but in other ways it's still playing catch up and I think this is why more people dont use them in spite of the fact that they are pretty good.

Last edited by neostyles; 04-14-2016 at 01:42 PM.
04-14-2016, 12:54 PM   #117
Site Supporter
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 2,952
Canon and Nikon did not..... they are style and user experience champions...
.
.
.
04-14-2016, 01:33 PM   #118
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,292
QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
The pentax cameras that I've used in the past while admitantly small and lacking the bulk of full frame, just didn't feel good in the hands. The grip on the K20 just didn't feel like it was designed to be ergonomic. Pentax's design hasn't been the best traditionally. Pentax is losing out because of the form follows function.
Thanks for the laugh, this thread keeps making me smile every time I read a new post.
04-14-2016, 01:42 PM   #119
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,436
Yeah. I'm now convinced that an iPhone feels better "in the hands" than the 645z-inspired K-1's grip.
04-14-2016, 02:05 PM   #120
Veteran Member
neostyles's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 445
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Yeah. I'm now convinced that an iPhone feels better "in the hands" than the 645z-inspired K-1's grip.
Completely missed the point. You can keep making light of it, but as long as you keep doing so, Pentax will only have a few users like the fro said. He has more subscribers than pentax has users probably. I looked back at some of my early photos in college and they were pretty piss poor. Now I get calls from companies to shoot their events and do headshot of employees, etc. It was only through criticism that I improved. The iPhone isn't a dslr. It doesn't have a grip because newsflash, it isn't mean to be held for hours on end like a dslr is. But you can bet the iPhone 6 is aesthetically miles and miles ahead of any Pentax camera to date. I think Pentax's best looking camera was the k30 and I don't understand why they didn't follow in it's footsteps with the K-1. Boxy cameras went out of style decades ago. There is a market for retro looking cameras, and fuji has some of the sexiest retro style cameras that money can buy but I'm fairly certain that Pentax isn't even going for that here. One of the most welcome improvements going from the K20 to the D600 is the usability. The camera felt like it was designed with the user in mind.

I mean, is this the only thing holding Pentax back? No, but it's easy to fix. If they just played to the tune of canon/nikon they would already probably be positioned to get more mainstream attention.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, brand, camera, chest, designer, dslr, dust, ff, froknows photo, froknows photo k-1, full-frame, k-1, lcd, lenses, lint, magnets, metal, pentax, people, photo, ricoh, rods, rust, tilt, tool, video
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Announcement no one is talking about: Macro converter GM-1 astron Ricoh GR 4 02-23-2016 02:31 PM
Single Malt Whisky - more productive than talking about the "K-3" Docrwm General Talk 148 03-31-2013 02:53 AM
K-5 vs Nikon Autofocus lock in low light! NOT talking about speed. haassaasin Pentax DSLR Discussion 27 10-30-2011 11:34 AM
Anyone talking about Troy Davis execution last night? ihasa General Talk 29 09-25-2011 09:52 PM
Talking about you can Canon... Matjazz Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 6 11-26-2007 06:52 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:37 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top