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02-27-2016, 12:18 PM   #1
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PF video interview with Ricoh - K-1 has no EFC shutter??

The video interview states that the K-1 does not have an electronic first curtain shutter, or am I reading it wrong?

02-27-2016, 12:21 PM   #2
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Correct. It's not the same magnitude problem it can be on mirrorless, where the shutter closes *twice* to take a picture (because it was open in the first place to supporr the EVF).

There were a lot of complaints about the original Sony A7R, for instance.
02-27-2016, 12:30 PM   #3
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But in live view it will. There in lies the problem, same as the 645z

Ricoh must not have the technical know how and boffins working out the back to be able to do this.

I would have thought it be essential for the multi-shot hi-res mode.
02-27-2016, 01:19 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
But in live view it will. There in lies the problem, same as the 645z

Ricoh must not have the technical know how and boffins working out the back to be able to do this.

I would have thought it be essential for the multi-shot hi-res mode.
If by multi-shot hi-res mode you mean PixelShift, PS uses electronic 'shutter'. The engineers must for some reason have chosen not to implement EFC this time, maybe because they started from scratch on the shutter, mirror box, CPU, sensor and prism/viewfinder.

02-27-2016, 01:23 PM - 1 Like   #5
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This is one of those features that I'm sure will be added later down the road. I don't think other DSLRs had it either until recently.

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02-27-2016, 01:24 PM   #6
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So the Electronic Shutter is optional in Live View, and used in Pixel Shift Mode; but not available (?) in normal (Optical Viewfinder) shooting mode.

Perhaps it didn't made much sense to implement it (as full ES or EFS) in OV mode, since there's also the mirror and the shutter is normally closed. As some sort of mirror lock-up, maybe, but then you can use the Live View mode with ES activated.
Also, the Pentax high end cameras tend to have quieter shutter releases, though the K-1 appears to be a bit noisier than the K-3 series. OTOH the A7R was said to be noisier than a 645z...

IMO it rather boils down to choices (which must be implemented with limited resources) rather than technical expertise.
02-27-2016, 02:09 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
This is one of those features that I'm sure will be added later down the road. I don't think other DSLRs had it either until recently.
I believe the sensor should feature a global shutter for the camera to offer electronic shutter without inducing rolling shutter image artifacts?
02-27-2016, 02:12 PM   #8
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Kunzite, I think from what I read, it's only available in the Pixel Shift mode, but not in live view or OVF shooting.

You don't need it for OVF shooting, only for live view, just saves the shutter having to close first then open again to expose.

---------- Post added 02-28-16 at 07:13 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
This is one of those features that I'm sure will be added later down the road. I don't think other DSLRs had it either until recently.
Nikon did that with the D810 I think.

02-27-2016, 02:55 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
But in live view it will.
Well, that's true.

It's still less important in a heavy DSLR.
02-27-2016, 02:57 PM   #10
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k-1 electronic shutter is only used when pixel shifting, per the camera specs on the pentax site, although someone in a thread out here did mention a menu item for electronic shutter.

afaik, efcs can only be used on a dslr in live view/mirror up modes, and a dslr using live view has the same shutter functionality as a milc does, so it'll have the same shutter shock issues, see the shutter shock problem on the d810: Nikon D810 First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review

don't use live view/mup on the k-1? you'll have to deal with mirror vibration, this is what it looks like on a d800, blow the pic up to 100%: http://horshack.smugmug.com/photos/i-Bb5WTmF/0/O/i-Bb5WTmF-O.jpg

---------- Post added 02-27-16 at 02:00 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
Nikon did that with the D810 I think.
the d810 got a re-designed shutter, over the d800, but as you can see, it still has a shutter shock problem.
02-27-2016, 03:34 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
Kunzite, I think from what I read, it's only available in the Pixel Shift mode, but not in live view or OVF shooting.

You don't need it for OVF shooting, only for live view, just saves the shutter having to close first then open again to expose.
Electronic shutter in Live View mode is a menu option.
02-27-2016, 09:24 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Electronic shutter in Live View mode is a menu option.
This. In one of the videos it shows up in the menu, and on another video it isn't there. I don't know why, maybe it wasn't finished and was dropped from the final release firmware. To make it work really well requires touching a bunch of other stuff, such as flash sync and the aperture control. Maybe it will show up in one of the firmware updates. Maybe they couldn't get it working well enough with the current hardware.
02-27-2016, 09:41 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
believe the sensor should feature a global shutter for the camera to offer electronic shutter without inducing rolling shutter image artifacts?
A global shutter would also allow us to sync flash at practically any speed* It would also eliminate "jello" artifacts while taking video.

*though this would ultimately be limited by the duration of the flash pulse a t.1
02-27-2016, 11:14 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
don't use live view/mup on the k-1? you'll have to deal with mirror vibration, this is what it looks like on a d800, blow the pic up to 100%: http://horshack.smugmug.com/photos/i-Bb5WTmF/0/O/i-Bb5WTmF-O.jpg
The in Pentax sensor Shake reduction would compensate this problem somewhat compared to the Nikon. Given that Nikon uses lens stabilisation which is the cart in front of the horse. Another plus for Pentax in my opinion.
02-28-2016, 05:56 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by gmans Quote
The in Pentax sensor Shake reduction would compensate this problem somewhat compared to the Nikon. Given that Nikon uses lens stabilisation which is the cart in front of the horse. Another plus for Pentax in my opinion.
Nope. It is vibration caused by the shutter mechanism. SR hasn't compensated for that up till now. And SR is turned off in situations where you would use it, mirror up, delayed shutter release. Long lenses, long exposures.
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